Plants, peptides and wallabies

Nora Khaldi: [00:00:00] One hundred and twenty would be good in terms of healthspan with the right diet, with the right supplementation, the right attitude, the right physical exercise, a hundred and twenty, I think, totally feasible. We’ll go there. How about yourself, Peter?

Peter Bowes: [00:00:21] Hello again, and welcome to LLAMA, the Live Long and Master Aging podcast. I’m Peter Bowes. This is where we explore the science and stories behind human longevity. Now, the power of food, plants in particular to help us optimize our health and potential longevity can not be underestimated. Indeed, nature itself is perhaps the most powerful tool we have to help us live well and to help us heal from some of the major diseases that life can throw at us. My guest today is Dr. Nora Khaldi, the founder of Nuritas, a Dublin based biotechnology company that brings together data scientists, biologists, A.I., artificial intelligence engineers, chemists and others with the goal of unlocking the benefits of nature to improve the lives of you and I. Dr. Khaldi, welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast.

Nora Khaldi: [00:01:14] Thanks a million. Peter, I’m really looking forward to talking to you and. Yeah, thank you for having me.

Peter Bowes: [00:01:20] Well, thank you. It’s good to talk to you. And that was obviously a very general overview of what you do. We’re going to delve into it in some detail. We’re going to talk about the molecules found in plants, peptides in particular, what they are and why they’re important. But first, I would like to go back to the beginning for you. You’re a mathematician, aren’t you? Not initially a biologist by training.

Nora Khaldi: [00:01:43] Yeah, absolutely. So my background is is very diverse. So I started off my career as a pure mathematician, so very theoretical so I could apply it really to anything. I was always attracted to life science as well, but more probably attracted to mathematics. And it was a big choice to choose between both. But I went pure the mathematics. And the interesting thing about pure mathematics, like I said, is that you can really apply it to everything. So at the end of my masters, the question was what do I apply it to? And I could really go to anything finance, life science, law, engineering. And I decided to go after life science because it was really my second passion. And I found an area called bioinformatics and molecular evolution and comparative genomics as well. And I did a PhD really in drug discovery at Trinity College, where I could apply mathematics, computer science to those areas of biology and understand humans better.

Peter Bowes: [00:02:42] I actually know quite a few people in a very similar position to you, studied mathematics studied computer science and now find themselves in this field. And oftentimes they describe the human body as a as a computer, perhaps, rather than a natural being, shall we say. And they can apply their very logical mathematical minds to the human body, perhaps in a way that biologists traditionally haven’t.

Nora Khaldi: [00:03:07] Yeah, absolutely. Systems biology and and looking at a human as a system of interactions. But, you know, the funny thing is that we know so much as humans and there’s a lot we don’t know. And the biggest question is how much don’t we know? So is it a huge gap or is it a small gap? No one really knows. And it’s humans are very complex. We know more about the universe than we do know about ourselves. So it’s it’s yes. Applying a system’s biology is what we do. But obviously, there’s a lot of gaps there. We still don’t understand the full picture, but it is the way to to move forward. It really is to understand those interactions, those molecular chemical interactions, the pathways that underlie our our wellbeing and health in general, and how all that fits in. You know,

Peter Bowes: [00:03:57] You mentioned bioinformatics. What is that?

Nora Khaldi: [00:04:00] So bioinformatics is an interesting area of biology that’s intersects with other technologies like computer science, for example, and mathematics and physics. And basically, it’s a way to look at biology in a very systematic way, like a map, and to understand how things work at the molecular level and try and and and understand that at the molecular level. And how can you rewire it or move it from a state to another state so it can be applied in different ways. So, for example, my experience with bioinformatics has been to look at different species and compare them and understand how certain species have certain behaviors, or, have have certain chemicals that they produce and others don’t. And why that is and you can’t do that by hand. It’s impossible. So you need computers and supercomputers to be able to actually look at all that data. And you know, during my years we’ve been looking at mammals over hundreds of millions of years, being able to compare them to compare the molecules in between them, understand how they interact, how they came about, what genes, their loss, what genes they gained and so forth.

Peter Bowes: [00:05:14] And so it was this area of interest that led you eventually to looking at plants and the molecules contained within plants that could be beneficial to us. Just explain that area of interest and why it’s so piqued your interest.

Nora Khaldi: [00:05:27] So, Peter, it’s really interesting. What got me really in this area is actually wallabies and it’s a funny story. So so I worked in the whole area of molecular evolution looking at these molecules that could actually give us future drugs or we could create drugs from them. And what was interesting was I after my PhD, there was this very large consortium that was coming together, and it was a mixture of industry and academia. And their goal was to understand the molecular structures in milk from dairy or bovine milk. And what I did before I took the the position there to lead the bioinformatics part is that I went to a conference. It happened to be Napa Valley and it was about wallaby milk. And and I literally came out of it with like I came out of it gobsmacked and I couldn’t say it in better words. So the reason was that they had found that if you take a wallaby and you gave the wallaby an older wallaby’s milk. So, you know, wallabies are marsupials. They come out as foetuses, really. And then they and they develop in the in the pouch.

Peter Bowes: [00:06:38] Yeah.

Nora Khaldi: [00:06:38] And and what they did is it took two wallabies exact age and they gave them two different milks. The first was the normal milk they take at that age. And the second one they gave it a milk that was from an older wallaby. And the differences, the physical differences that were seen between both was just dramatic. Like you’d never think they’re both the same age. One of them was weak and, you know, no fur, could barely move. And the other one was very big, mostly furry, and could have all over. So very, very different. And then they realised that basically the differences are the composition of the milk was very different and the molecules in in that milk was extremely different. So the sum of the milk that was given to, the some of the peptides, these are specific molecule found in that milk changed over time. So the early peptides were focused on developing the internal system. So it got brain, but not the outside. And the later milk was focused on developing the muscle and the fur. And for me, that was really both shocking, incredible. And I came out of it saying, we know so little about nature and we know so little about these incredible molecules that lie in nature and how they can totally influence our development. And if someone could understand them and find them, we could literally cure any disease. And that’s really the reason I started working. And I’m like, OK, let let me now really use my background to come into this area where it was really void of technology and start really understanding how can we understand nature better and decipher it better. And that’s what I’ve done after that.

Peter Bowes: [00:08:24] Let’s just go back to wallabies. This isn’t a rabbit hole that I was expecting to go down in this conversation. But it’s fascinating. Just a couple of quick questions. Are you referring to the age of the mother in terms of producing the milk,

Nora Khaldi: [00:08:38] That’s a good point. 

Peter Bowes: [00:08:38] As opposed to the stage of the lactation? So we’re not talking about colostrum that the first milk

Nora Khaldi: [00:08:42] Colostrum is very early. It’s only the early days. And then that’s in let’s say in humans, for example, milk changes, but not dramatically because we’re not coming out as foetuses. We’ve already we’ve developed quite well. And the early milk, which is colostrum, is focus on the immune system. 

Peter Bowes: [00:08:58] Right. 

Nora Khaldi: [00:08:58] Here for the wallabies, the mother is the same. It’s the same mother, the milk. And sometimes she’ll have two babies. And basically what they’ve done is that they’ve taken the two wallabies, one wallaby with earlier milk the first few months and the second wallaby with the latter few months.

Peter Bowes: [00:09:14] Right.

Nora Khaldi: [00:09:14] And the changes are so dramatic and the changes, obviously, and in marsupials and in general, the milk changes, really the composition of milk changes very quickly all the time to trigger certain parts of the development of the wallaby.

Peter Bowes: [00:09:28] That is fascinating, isn’t it?

Nora Khaldi: [00:09:30] And it’s a good system. It’s an incredible system to learn. It’s an incredible system. And that’s wallabies that’s one species. And then you realise that, wow, OK, so if this happens here, so OK, so many other species would have the same thing. And the question is, well, are these specific molecules called peptides, which are the major building blocks of the human body as well, and the major signaling molecule in the human body are these, you know, only found in milk or can we find in other source materials, more plentiful sources like plants, and that was my mission then it was OK, these incredible molecules are found in milk because obviously milk has evolved to develop the neonates and to augment their performance. And and but actually, can can we find these in other sources? Because obviously, if we’re going to data mine wallaby milk is going to be the the sample size is very small. So so then the mission was, OK, can we find these peptides in plants? And what’s interesting is that peptides are everywhere. So can we find peptides in plant that can improve human health? Because unlike Wallaby, we’re closer to the wallaby than we are to plants. So the question is, can we find them in plants? And what’s interesting is that I now realize that really after my Ph.D. are when you eat plants in general, foods, foods coming, you know, when the source is a plant, you don’t get a lot of these activities. So the activity of the peptides disappears because you break it down and you digest it and really those benefits go away and you don’t get them. And the question for us is how do we identify those benefits in the plants and make them available to people? So identify those peptides and make them available to people.

Peter Bowes: [00:11:23] Well, the Wallaby story certainly illustrates the incredibly sophisticated nature of the natural world. And as you’ve implied, there is so much to learn. So let’s move on to developing your company and looking further into the peptides that are found in plants that can potentially benefit us as human beings.

Nora Khaldi: [00:11:41] So the story then was that I realised that there are some incredible components in nature that can improve human health. And I was focus specifically on peptides and peptides for everyone listening. It’s it’s simply a short protein. So everyone has heard of proteins. Peptides are just simply the shorter version of proteins and they basically lie within the protein. And like I said, when you eat a lot of these incredible whole foods, you get, you know, some nutrients from them, etc., but you don’t get a lot of those health benefits, actually, you lose them. So the question was, how do we get how do we use the full potential of food and how do you use the full potential of plants? And and this is where   came about. So I founded Nuritas on that principle of let’s really enhance human health. Let’s empower humans to take control over their health, but let’s find those health benefits in everyday plants that we kind of overlook. And we’re not taking that benefit and we’re not using that benefit the right way. And the question then was, Well, how can we make this possible? Because if you look at the industry, it’s taken 30 to 100 years to develop active ingredients that improve human health. If you look at Omega III, if you look at, you know, all types of minerals and and, you know, if you want to develop an ingredient, you can’t wait 30 or 100 years. So the question is, how do we accelerate that discovery? And my background coming from the data point of view, I realized that there were there was no other way but to introduce machine learning and artificial intelligence and going into these different plants and looking at all the molecular structures within them. Specifically, we’re focused on peptides because, again, that’s the major signalling molecule in the human body. And how do we decipher that information? How can we pinpoint very quickly on computers which ones are the ones that we’re not getting and that have a very interesting health benefit? And how can we make them available for humans? How can we scale those products? How can we make them available? And that’s really has been the mission of Nuritas. And I can give you the example I’d like to talk about is is one that we found in fava bean.

Peter Bowes: [00:14:03] That’s exactly what I was going to ask you. Give me an example of what you found and how as human beings we can benefit.

Nora Khaldi: [00:14:09] So the example is so there’s a product we launched it’s the first product, one of the first products we launched, and we’re really proud of it because it took a long time to build the technology to a point where we proved the technology and then we could go and search for for these types of molecules. So the first one is called the first one is called Elio Restore. And it’s a product that we found in fava bean. And as an example, OK, so muscle decay and muscle decline starts from very early on, starts from the age of twenty eight – thirty. We start losing skeletal muscle cells. We start losing we and even the performance of the cells that are in place declines. And the question is, how do we identify a combination of molecules are they molecules from nature that can actually stop that from happening or at least slow it down. And what we did is that we searched for three different mechanisms. It took a while to build this project. We looked for three different mechanisms that underpin muscle loss, and that is inflammation. So when you start, you know, usually muscle loss is a combination of three things. You start, inflammation goes up, you start, your muscle starts producing less protein, and then your muscle also starts producing less protein and starts degrading faster. And the question is, how do we how do we stop all that at the same time? How do we target those three very distinct pathways at the same time? And so we use our technology, which again took us a few years to build to to go into nature and literally go into every plant available to us and start looking for ones that would have those three mechanisms hidden within it.l

Peter Bowes: [00:15:59] Let me jumpin there you say go into every plant that’s available to you. That sounds like a daunting task.

Nora Khaldi: [00:16:05] Yeah, it’s it’s a big one. But we’ve been working behind the scene as well on gathering a lot of the samples. A lot of plant samples from around the world. We obviously for every project we will focus on, you know, a subset of interest. For example, if it’s going to be in foods, we will focus on foods,only. If it’s going to be in the dietary supplement area, we will we will open up other other sources as well, that may not be food, but so in this project specifically, we want it to be food grade. So we focus on all plants that were food grade plants so that we could eat.

Peter Bowes: [00:16:41] I’m curious, there are clearly certain parts of the world where people are known for their longevity. I’m curious, did you focus on the diets and the plants that certain populations eat that seem to be benefiting without the benefit of science, just through history and culture seem to be benefiting from their diet.

Nora Khaldi: [00:16:57] So the choices here Peter, its, you could you could so you could determine a subset. We have that data. We could determine a subset of plants that we said, OK, let’s focus on. But we didn’t want to really bias that at that point. We just said, let’s find a plant that that if you eat, you won’t get those benefits. You get the nutritional benefits, but you won’t get that kind of modulatory benefit. And let’s find ones that have that benefit and have has all three of the activities we want within it. And fava beans came up as as the ingredient, as the source. And it’s funny because, again, when you eat the fava bean, you do get the nutritional part, but you don’t get that benefit of the muscular benefit. And what we showed then is that there was three different peptides within the the fava bean lying in totally different parts of the fava bean that targets those three areas. So one would reduce muscle degradation and targets very, very specific pathway. The other one would would improve muscle synthesis and the other one would reduce inflammation. And together, the combined activity we’ve we’ve been tested it pre clinically and three clinicals by the end of the year, one already done, one ongoing, and the third one by the end of the year, all double blind, placebo, clinicals. And the results, again, are phenomenal in terms of the activity of this, because currently there are no real solutions to muscle regeneration, muscle decline with aging, except usually protein is given. But it’s very hard when an engine is broken, giving it more petrol is not going to make it work. You know, you have to fix the engine first

Peter Bowes: [00:18:38] In terms of this research, then what is the or what was the next stage to convert your findings after scouring the properties of many plants, converting that to something that we can use.

Nora Khaldi: [00:18:51] The funny thing about science, Peter, is that going from science to commercial is an interesting it’s an interesting step. OK, first, the science needs to be obviously translatable. It needs to it needs to support a consumer need that is there and viable, but also it has to hit so many other areas. So it has to be functional. So you have to prove that it works, which we’ve done and with with all the clinical and preclinical and publications behind it. But then with Elio Restore, for example, we had to also make sure that the product was stable, that the that we could scale it in a cost effective way, that, you know, that it you know, you could put it in a hot area and the molecules themselves would stay stable, that it’s bioavailable as well. That when you take it orally because this is an oral food ingredient, when you take it orally, that you’re not going to break it down, that it works still. And and I think so there’s a lot of other tick box areas that are as important as the science that you have to also tick while developing a product. And so, yeah, the team, both the science and the product development team were were incredible. It took us quite a few years to develop a lot of the products we have. The first launch, like I said, is Elio Restore, but we have quite a few behind us. It’s really that combination of very different people coming from very different fields that made it happen. Also identifying a consumer need because aging muscle is a massive, massive area. We’re all aging. A quarter of the world is already there and it’s going to grow very fast from there. And and there’s clear need to to improve our muscle health for multiple reasons. One is that we need to you know, we we need to perform the same way. Everyone. I want to perform the same way I did a few years back, both physically and mentally. Mobility’s a big one. But it’s not just mobility, more performance, energy and metabolism. It’s all connected to muscle. So super important. And then we worked on other areas as well, Peter. So metabolism is another. And we did some work with pre diabetics and then in general cellular aging. So we did some clinicals on skin, for example, with cellular aging where we reverse we’re trying to reverse the cells age in a holistic way, pushing different pathways towards restoration of the of the cell.

Peter Bowes: [00:21:23] Looking at this from the consumer’s perspective, clearly it’s often very difficult for individuals to know what they are going to most benefit from in terms of some form of supplementation. I think we can all acknowledge that muscle strength as we get older is vitally important. But as science develops, there’s your company. There are other companies as well, developing products. And is this lingering huge sort of question mark hanging over? What should I do that’s going to be best for me? And how can I best decide?

Nora Khaldi: [00:21:51] It’s funny, you hit that point Peter because that actually I spoke about that a lot. Like when you go into stores or whatever, that store is a CVS, Walgreens, you know, and you’re hit with that kind of like number of of products on the shelves. And you’re like, OK, first, what do I take, what do I need as a person? And then when I know what I need so many within that area as well. So which one is actually better for me? And is that kind of personalization and precision nutrition that is currently missing? Now technologies are getting there. I mean, wearables and technology from pure tech perspective are getting there and there’s ways to measure biomarkers and you as a person. But currently there’s no solutions given to these individuals. And the reason so they’ll tell you, for example, I did a DNA test recently enough. And I know that my family has some history with cholesterol, OK? And and so I didn’t know that at all. Now, I’m not a you know, I don’t go eating fat a lot, but it’s actually it’s something where I’m like, OK, how do I prevent anything that could happen in the future? What can I take now? And and other things, metabolism and so forth. And the reason there is no solution currently is that a lot of what’s out there is not personizable. And what I mean by that is that in order to personalize something and to make it very precise to the individual or group of people, you need to understand exactly how that product works, why it works, how it works in the human body, because you can’t personalize it if you don’t know how it works. And and I’m guessing now it’s not a guess. We’ve calculated that over ninety nine percent, actually close to 100 percent of ingredients that are included in both dietary supplements and foods. Currently, no one knows how they work. They may have a clinical attached to them. They may have some support and science attached to them, but really no one knows how they work. So it’s very, very hard to personalise them.

Peter Bowes: [00:23:47] That’s one of the issues that the knowledge base is spread quite thinly. And talking about individuals, where do they get most of their information from? Well, apart from advertising and television and what they see in the store, hopefully it’s through asking questions of the main health provider. And very often that health provider is, I’ve got to say bluntly, totally unaware of the kind of science that you’re talking about.

Nora Khaldi: [00:24:09] Yes, and that’s and that’s important for us. So we have been starting to to start the conversation with health providers and and to understand that the, what we’re developing and it takes a long time to develop, OK, took us a long time to get already just the technology in place and then from the technology to actually get a product, that’s another story as well. It takes longer and to put in the time to do the science, you know, to do the clinicals, to measure the effects of the ingredients, et cetera. So and to understand how things work so that the difference between identifying something randomly or we found something from curcumin that has an effect to using machine learning and AI, where you actually know the molecule, you now know how it works and why it works, that brings a precision to what you’re doing and at another level of science and rigor to what you’re doing. It’s like a pharma level science to a natural source, which is again, that intersection is is very rare and and that’s what we’re trying to push forward. And so everything we do, we know exactly how how it works. What are the molecules within it that do have the functionality that we’re not getting it from the source itself. We know how they work and we know why they work. And that’s what we’re bringing to consumers with a lot of science behind. So absolutely, I think health care individuals are definitely as well as consumers are kind of lost in the in a lot of, let’s say, of the marketing and Internet. And but at the end of the day, there are very, very few that have the science behind and the characterization and understanding, fundamental understanding of how things work.

Peter Bowes: [00:26:01] I want to ask you about what I think is a fascinating paradox, and that is the fact that food is one of the major problems around the world in terms of leading to disease, overeating, obesity, obviously the main one, whereas you’re looking at food as the solution. And I think there’s a lot of work clearly to do in terms of education and a mindset as to how people look at food and its potential for us.

Nora Khaldi: [00:26:29] Absolutely. I think food is really the solution and it has been a problem. But we shouldn’t be seeing it that way because it’s part industry made. So a lot of when you when you start producing large scale and everything’s focused on taste, only the driver is very different. So your focus on taste, so obviously higher salt, higher sugar and loads of additives, et cetera. And that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking more about how do you how do you remove some of these and replace with with healthier ingredients and, but lose on taste? I think taste is very important and it’s something that I didn’t touch. But everything we do as well as, OK, how can we make it taste neutral where it can be formulated without actually modifying the taste of the original product? Because that’s very important for the food industry and some other supplement and supplement. Not so much so, but so it’s how do you combine ingredients? How do you look at food? How can we use food better because we’re not using it the right way where plants a lot of what’s in plants, we’re not getting those health benefits at all. And that’s even when we eat the whole foods part of the plant itself. So the food in general has been seen as the problem, but it can be really turned very quickly into a solution done the right way.

Peter Bowes: [00:27:52] And it’s a big commercial issue, of course, as well as the food producers and manufacturers have an incentive to sell food that tastes good, but not necessarily good to do is a lot of good. There’s a huge again, it’s a mindset from the manufacturers perspective and perhaps advertisers as well.

Nora Khaldi: [00:28:10] Yeah, that’s true. And I think but things are moving because I think consumers are becoming more knowledge based consumers and food is moving towards this whole knowledge based food industry as well. And I think there’s a big shift and we can see it by the approaches we’re getting from large CPGs. They’re all interested now in developing healthier products so mean they may not touch their major you know, their major products are known to be unhealthy, but it’s creating versions of those that are healthier for you, that with no compromise to tastes. And I think that’s doable. And and then and then from a dietary supplement, it’s really about it’s really about, you know, opening the science to level where we know that what we’re taking will work. You know, we don’t have to question we know this this will work on on me and on the group of people that suffer from a certain condition or,yeah. And those things will happen or are happening at the moment. So which is good.

Peter Bowes: [00:29:16] I’m interested and I always ask my interviewees this question towards the end of the podcast, and that is based on what you have learned through your career, looking at this area and looking at your own longevity, your own aspirations to have a great healthspan the number of years that you optimize your health. Day-To-Day. How do you apply the science to yourself?

Nora Khaldi: [00:29:37] Ok, so I’m not an extremist in terms of diet. So I eat a bit of everything. OK, so I won’t go extreme on anything. I think a balanced diet is always great and I think being, you know, having a bit of everything in your diet is good. There are things that I do on a daily basis. I’ll take a brazil nut once a day for selenium and so forth. So that’s you know, those are things I do. I do take Elio Restore and the other products we’re developing behind the scene that aren’t launched yet, I take it, as a powder. And it’s interesting because to think about it, because that was a concept a few years and to actually make it into a powder and now being able to take it. And for me, that’s more from a performance perspective, from an energy. I feel it. I feel it from an energy perspective. But long term, for me, it’s it’s again, to maintain my muscle as long as I can, because it is literally the the first sign of aging with sagging etc. that’s that’s linked to muscle as well. It’s something that happens internal that we never think about, but it’s something that everyone goes through.

Peter Bowes: [00:30:42] Oh yeah. And then ultimately, of course, frailty is one of the biggest problems as people get over the age of maybe 60 or 70, that it very often can be the beginning of the end, the frailty that leads to to falls into broken bones and that kind of thing. 

Nora Khaldi: [00:30:55] Absolutely. 

Peter Bowes: [00:30:56] So over a lifetime. I totally agree with you. Muscles and muscle strength is crucially important.

Nora Khaldi: [00:31:00] And then things like obviously exercise, water. So not extreme in anything. I think a balanced diet is always important. Some exercise, a lot of liquids. Healthspan is, is, is, is going to expand. And everything we’re doing here in terms of the types of peptides we’re developing, et cetera, that all that is is targeted towards that improvement of Healthspan.

Peter Bowes: [00:31:25] And do you have a healthspan goal? I know a lot of people that work in this space have goals in terms of their own longevity. You know, some are quite extreme goals that insist that they can live to 120 because the science actually supports that. Are you the kind of person that looks ahead and says, OK, well, this is my goal, this is my personal aspiration?

Nora Khaldi: [00:31:44] So a hundred twenty would be good in terms of healthspan,

Peter Bowes: [00:31:48] Do you think it’s realistic?

Nora Khaldi: [00:31:49] I absolutely think it’s realistic, absolutely. With with the right diet, with the right supplementation for your own. And there are ones certain supplements that I think everyone should take. You know, certain ones are going to be more specific to certain groups. But muscle is one that’s for everyone, you know, metabolism is for everyone. But if it’s more for diabetics, that’s the population of pre diabetics and ones with impaired glucose. I think so at 120, I think totally feasible. Yeah. So and I and I think with the right frame of mind, the right the right attitude, the right physical exercise and a bit of, you know, having a diet that’s really balanced. I think it will go there. How about yourself, Peter?

Peter Bowes: [00:32:38] Well, I’ve got to say, it’s great to hear you say that because I often throw that out there and most people will dismiss it as unrealistic.

Nora Khaldi: [00:32:45] Oh, yeah. no,

Peter Bowes: [00:32:46] At this stage of the science, I think it’s exciting that you could say that. My very similar I want I mean, the Healthspan is something I talk about all the all the time on this podcast. And I think that’s what’s crucially important. And if I could have a great healthspan of 90 or 100 and that’s remaining vital and physically active and socially invested and intellectually involved in all of those good things, that will be great for me. The worst scenario is a long lifespan, but a lifespan that isn’t particularly good and one that you can’t relish and enjoy every day. So I’m definitely with you, I don’t have a number yet. Maybe I’ll formulate a number in the next few years, who knows? But just a long healthspan, I think is crucially important. And I think it’s important that you’ve done a great job in just explaining what that phrase means and the relevance of Healthspan.

Nora Khaldi: [00:33:35] Yeah, absolutely. I think yeah, we’ve we’ve actually written a paper about it because basically what we’re seeing is that Healthspan has not really changed, but lifespan has. So we’re living longer but we’re sicker for longer as well.

Peter Bowes: [00:33:51] Yeah.

Nora Khaldi: [00:33:51] And that really needs to change. So and we can easily and diet is the one thing we do every day is diet is eating and drinking. It’s not taking drugs. It’s too late. It literally is the years we’re eating and drinking. How can we incorporate things that are just going to help us without even knowing about it? You know, they’re going to help us and we live a lot healthier for a lot longer.

Peter Bowes: [00:34:15] Just in closing, what is the next step in your work and your research and for your company?

Nora Khaldi: [00:34:22] So thanks for asking, Peter. So we want to be in every home by 2030. So inside our foods, inside our beverages, supplements, our medical foods and drugs in the future. And and to do that, we are doing it in two different ways. One is that we partner with large companies and we we you know, we give them our ingredients in a way. We license our ingredients to them so they can actually start producing healthier foods, healthier products. But then we’ve also launched our own line of products, direct to consumer products and Elio Restore is the first one of those. And we intend to grow that. And that’s really specifically focused towards aging and longevity in general. So healthy aging and it’s starting the healthy aging really starts early. It should really start a lot from birth, but a little later. But we should start thinking about it very early.

Peter Bowes: [00:35:16] Yeah, I’m glad you make that point, because I say that repeatedly that it’s all very well talking to people in middle age or you know the beginning of the final chapter. Yeah, the real message has got to be directed to people in their 20s and 30s. And sadly, that is and through experience of talking to people, that’s the the generation that doesn’t think much about aging and longevity, because at that stage in life, you’re going to live forever and you don’t need to think about what you’re eating and drinking, which, of course, isn’t the case. And if only you’re doing a good job of getting that message out, that if only people thought of, you know, life goes quicker, if you could only start thinking about it in your 20s and 30s, I think you’d be doing a lot better in your eighties and nineties.

Nora Khaldi: [00:35:52] But it’s funny because when you think about it, people see their outside, OK, you’re looking in the mirror. That’s what you see. So when the outside is OK, you’re not really worried. But when you start seeing wrinkles and sagging and you know that’s literally happening in your body inside you for many years beforehand to get to that stage outside. So and it’s a pity we couldn’t see ourselves from the inside. That’s actually the I think the day will come where we would see we would have we would monitor the inside of us much more. And I think then the realization would come out here then, because you’re not just looking at you in the mirror, you know that you’re you’re aging very quickly inside as well. And you may not see it till years later.

Peter Bowes: [00:36:37] Nora Khaldi this has been a really fascinating, inspiring conversation. Thank you very much indeed.

Nora Khaldi: [00:36:42] Thank you, Peter. And I’ll talk to you soon. And if you want any more information, please go on Nuritas.com or ElioLife.com. Thank you very much. Thanks, Peter,

Peter Bowes: [00:36:51] And thank you. And exactly. I can put all of that information into the show notes for this episode of the podcast. And if you want to check out Nora’s work, please go there. We’re at the Live Long and Master Aging website. That’s LLAMApodcast.com LLAMApodcast.com in social media you’ll find us @LLAMApodcast. You can contact me @PeterBowes. the LLAMA podcast is a Healthspan Media production. A quick reminder, we’re now also available at audible.com. You might listen to books there you can also download his podcast, free of charge, wherever you find us, take care. And thanks so much for listening.