A holistic approach to healthspan

Simone Gibertoni: [00:00:00] We have always to think about what’s going to happen in the next 20 years in our field, we are just now doing quite important research about the future of longevity. Personally, you know, I like the idea of doing what I do for the next 50 years.

Peter Bowes: [00:00:20] Hello again and welcome to LLAMA, the Live Long and Master Aging podcast. I’m Peter Bowes. This is where we explore the science and stories behind human longevity.

SPONSOR MESSAGE: [00:00:31] This episode is brought to you in association with Clinique La Prairie. The award-winning Spa Clinic and pioneering health and wellness destination nestled on the shores of Lake Geneva in Montreux, Switzerland. Combining preventative medicine with bespoke lifestyle and nutrition plans, Clinique La Prairie offers a holistic approach to living fuller, healthier and longer lives.”

Peter Bowes: [00:00:55] So what does a holistic approach to maximizing our healthspan really mean? Optimizing the number of years that we enjoy the best of health is certainly the goal of this podcast. And I’m delighted to be working with clinical library to explore some of the issues in more detail in this special episode. Two guests. In a moment, we’re going to meet Dr. Adrian Heini, who is a graduate of the Faculty of Medicine at the University of Lausanne, Switzerland, and La Prairie’s medical director. But first, the clinic’s CEO, Simone Gibertoni joins me to discuss the four pillars for longevity, medical care, nutrition, movement and well-being, which Clinique La Prairie puts at the heart of its approach to helping people live a better, healthier and longer life. Simone, welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast.

Simone Gibertoni: [00:01:49] Peter, thank you very much for having us today. It’s a pleasure to be with you.

Peter Bowes: [00:01:53] It’s really good to talk to you. And I think it’s hopefully clear from my introduction that I think we share similar ideals in terms of our attitude towards aging and especially healthspan, which is why it’s good to be working with you on this. Maybe we could start with a little bit of history. Talk me through the maybe briefly talk me through the last 90 years of Clinique La Prairie.

Simone Gibertoni: [00:02:15] `Yes. Peter like you said is 90 years is a long story, but really there is a fascinating stories. Everything started here in Montereau in 1931, with Dr.Niehans, which was in fact an exceptional doctor, is the doctor who invented, we could say, the cellular therapy, this revitalization program, which was already at the time iconic and is still today our most important program. And Dr.Niehans was so famous and the result of its work were so exceptional that basically all the most famous people in the world already in the 50s started to come at Clinique La Prairie. So you had people like Winston Churchill, Cary Grant, Greta Garbo, of course, a lot of very famous people today. And, of course, we keep their name confidential, started to come to La Prairie for the Dr.Niehans therapies. And we can really say that, you know, I probably already talk a lot in your podcast about the medical spa. We could say that the Clinique La Prairie has been, in fact, the first medical spa because already in the 60s, at a certain point, the Mattli family, which is still today owning the clinic, Clinique La Prairie is a family owned company, acquired the clinic and really build up this idea of medical by having the best medical facilities with the best possible Swiss doctor. We have over 50 doctors working in Clinique La Prairie together with a wellness part and with very sophisticated hospitality part, which is again making us able to deliver this weekly program, mainly the majority of our program, our weekly program to our guests.

Peter Bowes: [00:04:08] And I know that the clinic values science. And a lot of the work that you do there is grounded in science. And clearly, over those 90 years, the science will have changed considerably. I’m just curious what you think the big developments have been over the years.

Simone Gibertoni: [00:04:26] Yeah, that’s that’s a key point. In fact, Peter for us and we have a team which is called we like to call them Life Science Team, which is continuously researching the best technologies internally. We have internal laboratories and also scouting the best technology in the market. I just give you an example of a very important collaboration for us, which is a collaboration with the Biopôle, which is a startup center, quite important that we have here in in Switzerland and everything we do, maybe because we have these 50 doctors now, which are always – in a way – that they are the gatekeeper of whatever we do, everything we do must be proved, must deliver results. So I think that we are putting together the best of really the health and wellness from a certain point of view. If we talk about the revitalization, which, as I was telling you, is our iconic program, this has gone through huge research in the last 20 years. We had a fantastic scientific team lead by Prof. Ernst Rietschel from the Borstel  Group in Germany. And today we are reaching our scientific team, always keeping in mind that the main themes of longevity. From nutrition to brain to immunity to senescent cell to inflammation, so always keeping lets say  the hot topic very well in target in terms of research.

Peter Bowes: [00:06:08] And Simone, what brought you to the clinic? Because I know you have a background in business. Was there something that happened in your career or your life that really kickstarted your interest in in this area and in health and longevity?

Simone Gibertoni: [00:06:22] But listen, it’s probably always now the nice things in life always come by chance. So I had the chance to know the the owner of the clinic. We we worked together for many years in the beauty business that I was running at the time. And so at a certain point, we decided to start working together at the clinic, which of course for me was was a big was a big honor to be part of this institution. And let’s say on the personal side, I always had the passion for the high performance in general and high performance on a personal level, on the company level. And, of course, health and wellness energy in general. I would say, Peter, is the foundation of every of everything. Now, from this point of view, and I have to tell you on top of this, I really got incredibly passionate about this vision that we built over time here in Clinique La Prairie, which is helping people living longer, healthier and better life. And I mean, I don’t have to tell you what is the what do you want more than coming to the office every day thinking about ways to improve the life of the people that really dream from this point of view?

Peter Bowes: [00:07:44] Well, I think it’s it’s clearly a great job and one that you enjoy a lot. Let’s bring in Dr. Adrian Heini, who is the Medical Director at the clinic. And Adrian, let me maybe ask you the same question that clearly you’ve been a doctor all of your career. You specialize in these issues that are focused, let’s say, the umbrella issue of healthspan and living as long as and as well as we can. What is your own philosophy towards aging?

Adrian Heini: [00:08:12] Yes, thank you. Thank you. To be here in this podcast. So if we come, maybe if you want to come to this question, what is my interest in longevity? I just quickly tell you somehow where I come from. I did medicine and studied internal medicine. And I was from basically from my studies. And I was interested in holistic domains like acupuncture and nutrition. And then I did my research work for several years in nutrition. And that’s basically combining medicine and nutrition. There are other holistic approaches and science, as I have been, you know, also working for several years in the research team. So that basically brought me or made me so interested to work with Clinique La Prairie because Clinique La Prairie has the on the one side an approach, which remains holistic and natural, uses natural tools to live better and live longer. And on the other side, as Simone mentioned, it’s definitely based on research and recent and recent findings, like proving some somewhere that we are on the right track. So this is this is like my background, which brought me to the interest of longevity and of the philosophy of Clinique La Prairie.

Peter Bowes: [00:09:48] I think it’s probably fair to say that in the most recent years, it is developments in genetics that have been perhaps the biggest change in terms of very sophisticated genetic tests and how they can be integrated into a program for someone who is pursuing a long, healthy life.

Adrian Heini: [00:10:06] Exactly. That’s a good, good point. And we, again, together with our doctors, but particularly with our scientists, we very early in the development of genetics, we were interested in in that perspective. And the proof is, is that it was for good, because now we we are really up to date with recent methods and we are able to to integrate these genetic and epigenetic testing methods in our approach and our individual approach of the client.

Peter Bowes: [00:10:48] So let’s just dig a little deeper in terms of what it means for a client. Who to go through these tests, how it occurs, what they actually have to do and what it means for them in terms of the information, as they progress with their lifestyle and maybe adapt their lifestyle according to what the genetic tests discover

Adrian Heini: [00:11:13] Exactly for the clients? It’s very instructive and interesting to discover more about their genetic background. You could say why? Why to go into genetics because you cannot change it. But that’s wrong. The genetic background shows you what are the predispositions and the risks somehow if you live a bad life or if you don’t do anything against… Now where the we come into this genetic rationale, is that some trends or some indications for certain risk, let’s say, a higher risk for cardiovascular disease or a higher risk for the diabetes, but also a predisposition, let’s say, to be less protected against oxidative stress that allows us actually to to tailor down the program and the recommendations given to to our clients. It’s a very useful but also constructive process for us doctors. Now, let me just say that the one of the unique advantages we have here at the clinic that is that we can get the result of the genetic test within a few days, because if you get the results one month later or two months later, once the client is gone, it’s much more difficult to factor in in in your attitude and to to give the recommendations

Peter Bowes: [00:13:03] And to what extent. I’m just curious how people respond to these tests, because I think for many people, this is a very novel approach. This is all quite new because I think people and you kind of referred to this, I think people have traditionally thought of their genetics and their genes as something that is set in stone and cannot be changed. But I think the key element is and you’ve referred to this, it is what else we can do. It is the environment around us. And, of course, that includes exercise and diet. So generally, how do people respond to knowing much more about themselves?

Adrian Heini: [00:13:38] No, they definitely do respond positively. Now, again, it’s a real condition that you can transmit the result personally because that that makes the whole difference. It may be scary if you you know, we get the report with red and green flashes and you don’t have the interpretation of these results. We use factors that are linked or related to predisposition, factors of that influence, lifestyle that influence some preventative factor, let’s say eye diseases that you can prevent if you go to the eye doctor. So so we choose our profiles also in the way that it is gives give something constructive or reassuring to to our clients. In other words, that there is something to do about it.

Peter Bowes: [00:14:43] Simone, let me ask you, do you think this new element of science is the future or at least a big part of the future in terms of looking after people’s day to day health, but with an eye on longevity as well, that it is a new area that is only going to grow?

Simone Gibertoni: [00:15:01] Yeah, be there for sure. Am I beside the principal, the four pillars that you just mentioned, which are critical for us? I always like to talk also about the what we call the 3C, which is the carer, competence and customization. Um, the idea of the genetic test. We have been the first to introduce it and we are going to be the first to introduce the epigenetic test is the idea of making a personalized program, a personalized wellness program for each of our guests. So this idea of customization and personalization is super important for us, is super important, our philosophy. And it will continue to be important for us in the sense that we don’t believe in the general concept of standard wellness for everybody. Each of us is different. That’s what we are highlighting through our genetic test and through the new epigenetic test that we do to all our guests coming for our program, which is basically now complementing the genetic test. And the idea is how can we customize the best program? Because at the end we want to reach the better result for our for our guests and our patients. How can we customize for each of our clients the best program for their health and to fulfill the vision I was mentioning to you, helping them to living a longer, healthier and better life? Of course, when after one week, then if you want, we can elaborate a little bit on what we are building up to be sure that there is a follow up. But if after one week, one of our. A study that is telling us that we have changed their life, in a sense, it means that we have been able to do something good for them. And this idea of really customization is is is very important in this In this process.

Peter Bowes: [00:16:58] And when I started by posing the question, what does a holistic approach to maximizing our healthspan really mean? Well, you tell me. I take it that it is a combination of the new science that we’ve just been talking about, but traditional methods as well, and that is optimizing our diet and exercise programs.

Simone Gibertoni: [00:17:17] Absolutely is the principle of the four pillars. Now, you mentioned the medical, nutrition, well-being and movement. Is the idea that, of course, for us we’re very strong on the medical school. The first pillar is very important, but there are all the four pillars which are important. I was telling you, medical is important, but inside the well-being pillar, there is transcendental meditation, which for us is also important. Nutrition for us is critical in what we do. We have people researching on it is it is really the fundamental part of our program together with the movement. And what we are saying is always is that there will never be the magic pills, which is solving all your health issues. But it’s always a combination of these four pillars, which is what we call, like you said, holistic approach.

Peter Bowes: [00:18:08] You mentioned Simone that there is no magic pill. And I think that is hugely important to remember that. And also the fact that we are and again, you refer to this were all very, very individual. And I think new genetic tests are only only proving that we’re all individuals. We all respond to external factors. We respond to food in very different ways. And also exercise is one issue that I’d like maybe Dr. Heini, to talk to you about that I’m sure a lot of people come to you and complain about and say this is something I really want to try to conquer in my life, and that is inflammation. We are all, I think, plagued by inflammation in big part. I think through our lifestyles and the way that we we work may be sitting for too long behind a desk can lead to inflammation. What can we do about it?

Adrian Heini: [00:18:55] Oh, yeah, it’s quite a complex issue. And, you know, going back in medicine, not that many years. Of course, inflammation was was in evidence, but it’s only in the last decades that scientists, together with doctors, realized that somehow chronic or underlying inflammation is much more of a problem, that that what we thought. So we are very, you know, trivial or well known well-known areas like cardiovascular disease, where we know now definitely that the underlying very, very slight smooth inflammation helps to actually to to worsen or to develop cardiovascular disease. But this is also the case in many other health areas like brain degeneration, joint etc, etc. And that’s why it is definitely important to have non-inflammatory environment. And now, again, it became evident that cells, aging cells are clearly influenced by inflammatory or underlying inflammatory process. So what to do. Here I think we have many, many tools, natural tools that we should use first before we go into therapeutics or pharmacological treatments. I’m, of course, talking about not acute inflammatory diseases, but really these underlying inflammatory process. So we have to make quite some progress in selecting ingredients, nutritional ingredients, plans, herbs, etc., which show antiinflammatory actions against one very trivial and well-known one is omega three fatty acids, which clearly has a antiinflammatory action. So one of our approaches is to to look at or even to measure the fatty acid profile and to look at the balance between omega three and six and then to correct the intake of oils and fats. So that’s just one one example that we have now. You know, we are developing and have developed nutritional supplements that we will give according to which problem we face Or which program we we do at the clinic, so it’s still actually evolving and then progressing, but we we have gone much further, further in knowing what natural ingredients we can actually use and and recommend to our clients.

Peter Bowes: [00:22:04] And presumably simple or relatively simple lifestyle changes as well can go a long way towards reducing inflammation.

Adrian Heini: [00:22:11] Absolutely. And that’s that’s why, like in every stay at the clinic using these the pillars, the three pillars plus, of course, the medical assessment, we work in harmony, you know, with nutrition, with physical exercise modifications and with a wellness approaches going up to the or down or up to mindfulness and meditation, because all these interventions or modifications can be favorable for an antiinflammatory or antioxidant anti oxidative biology or metabolism.

Peter Bowes: [00:22:58] Simone the clinic is part medical center. It’s part wellness retreat. I am curious, these last 12 months that we have all gone through and endured and it isn’t over yet, but we’re getting there. There’s light at the end of the tunnel. How have you dealt with covid?

Simone Gibertoni: [00:23:15] Listen, I would say from we had, of course, 97 percent of our clients were coming from outside Switzerland. So for us, of course, the travel ban has been unfortunately stopping a lot of our clients for coming to us. And of course, in view of the situation, in view of the fact that it seems to have all the basic the base of our programs was the strengthening of the immune system, of course, was in a sense a very hot topic for them. So from this point of view has been quite difficult for us. From the other point of view, being not only, like you said, the wellness place, but being a full fledged hospital is making our life, in a sense, easier. And there’s been a very, very high reassurance for our clients coming to us because they knew that we were just not only wellness plays, but in fact, we had all the medical staff already available for any need.

Peter Bowes: [00:24:19] And do you think what we’ve gone through is? I think it’s inevitable. It is going to change everyone’s attitude towards their own personal health and wellbeing and moving forward, and especially for people in your position running a clinic like yours, it’s going to really upend the industry, isn’t it entirely going to change the way people view the precious time that they have here and now that could influence how long they live and what state of health are going to be in in a few decades time?

Simone Gibertoni: [00:24:49] Yeah, absolutely, Peter. And of course, awareness is going to be higher for sure. And the desire for sure, there are two subject. You just you were mentioning inflammation and and the immune system, which now are much more common for our clients today and I and for our patients. And they want to know much more than in the past. I give you another example. In all our program, there is a medical checkup which is done the first day that our clients are coming. And, you know, in the past, we had a lot of clients saying about I do. I did. I came already last year. A lot of our clients are coming over here. Do I have to do it again? It’s really important. And now all of them are asking for it because they want to have it. So it means that they feel the importance of having their eyes checked the much more regularly than in the past. Uh, and, um, and and again, I think they all want to understand much more about health and wellness.

Peter Bowes: [00:25:56] And do you think we’re at much more thinking more globally about this? Do you think we’re at a turning point in global health? And clearly you cater for high end clients from around the world, but for other populations, distant populations? Clearly everyone has been affected by covid. And do you think that change in attitude that we’ve just been talking about will reach far and wide so that everyone will will think about health in a different way and perhaps everyone responsible for thinking about health in a different way, from governments to to health authorities in different countries?

Simone Gibertoni: [00:26:32] Listen, that’s our hope. Um, I don’t know if this will really happen. You were mentioning nutrition. We know how important is the nutrition and all for, uh, for our health. Is this pandemic really the pandemic opened our eyes, for example, on a different way that we have to think about nutrition? I don’t know. I’m not seeing it today. The changes that they would have hoped to see. But let’s say for sure, people will want to know more. And that’s I think it’s it’s important to start a process, to start the process that, like we said, requires some effort now from our side.

Peter Bowes: [00:27:14] Now, you mentioned I think you both mentioned that your clients will generally come and spend a week with you, quite an intense week in terms of tests and perhaps a reeducation in terms of of people’s health. I’m curious what happens after the week and how long the very positive experience of being with you for a week, how long it actually lasts to people, I suppose, learn lessons about themselves and implemented new lifestyles? Yes.

Simone Gibertoni: [00:27:42] Listen, then, maybe, Adrienne, answer to you about the effect of our therapies which are lasting for, of course, or for for many months. But your question is that is really fundamental and critical for me, because this has been my question immediately when I came and the question was, how can we continue to help our clients once they have left Clinique La Prairie? Because for sure, one week it’s you can really change it. Like we were saying before, the life of our people through education, making them discover four pillars. What do we do during the week? But then my dream was to follow up with with our clients once they leave CLB That’s why we have created we started to create this network of, uh, daily we call it a city hub, a daily wellness place. Because, Peter, basically 80 percent of our clients are leaving in 16 cities all around the world. So if we are able to have a small CLB in all of these cities, we will be able to follow up with them on a daily basis. So I would like them to find our nutrition philosophy, our movement philosophy when they are back home. And that is also the reason why we created this line of product, which is called holistic health, which was for us a way of giving the possibility to our clients to have a piece of Clinique La Prairie with them once they leave Switzerland.

Peter Bowes: [00:29:22] So Dr. Heini the same question then, maybe from a more of a medical perspective. And I suppose a cynic looking on could say, well, clearly it’s a very beneficial week that your clients will come experience, do the tests and learn a lot about themselves and pay a lot of money for. But how long to those benefits last fall?

Adrian Heini: [00:29:44] So maybe first I would like to say that, like since I joined the clinic and even even before our attitude and our programs, there were have always been focused on a long term action in terms of what we give as therapy and supplements, but also in terms of what we instruct our clients. Now, I think we are very happy because we have a great return, a recurrent percentage of returning clients after one year and one half year or two years. So it allows us actually to to observe whether they were able to implement lifestyle changes. And I’m not saying that the majority are doing them, but a certain percentage that we see on a regular basis, we can construct with them lifestyle changes and are some very satisfactory changes that that we observe certainly with with what Simone said is set up with new tools and applications where we can better keep in touch with the clients. This will even improve. But I would say we we’re probably already quite pioneers in the in implementing long term changes just by also by bringing the clients back by a certain connection that that has been created over the years with our with our clients.

Peter Bowes: [00:31:23] And I asked the question in part, because people will be familiar with the concept of a yo yo diet. They will go onto a diet for a week or six weeks and they’ll achieve a certain weight loss. But then that weight will will yo yo, it’ll go up and down and up and down. And the battle for a lot of people isn’t body, but it’s mind. And it’s a focus on what the ultimate goal is, and I suppose one concern could be that once away from the environment of somewhere like a clinic like yours, that people’s minds will will move on to other things, to to family issues, to school, to the children, to the the car that needs fixing or whatever the daily problem is. And generally, this is a problem for so many people that the attention focuses away from the health. I guess the challenge is to to get that attention span, to stay long term.

Adrian Heini: [00:32:15] It’s definitely a challenge. I completely I completely agree with you. Now, we know this challenge and that that’s why during, let’s say, only a week of stay, we work in between the doctors, between the dietitians who all have behavioral, psychological training. We are psychic psychologists. We really work on the mindset that the client is going back into real life. So we on on the one side, we want to offer him like a dream at the clinic. But we we don’t lose the connection to the real life. And that’s that’s a very important point.

Simone Gibertoni: [00:33:04] There is that one story that we are used to tell about. You were mentioning the weight management issue.

Peter Bowes: [00:33:10] Please.

Simone Gibertoni: [00:33:10] And we have a lot of clients calling us and saying, if I come to La Prairie for a weight management, how many kilos do I lose during the week? And we always say, if this is your approach, don’t come to laboratory. You should ask yourself how many kilos I am losing in one year time because that says to be your target. And if you will come to La Praire, we will tell you the right strategy is to make it. But not in one week. In one year.

Peter Bowes: [00:33:35] And Dr. Heini, you just used the expression, the dream or a spending a week at the clinic is like a dream like experience. Simone Is it like that?

Simone Gibertoni: [00:33:44] Let’s say we are. We also want to make the experience unique for our clients for sure. So there must be, like you said, the mental part is very important. So that must be the right mix between the therapies that we offer to them, as Adrian was saying, but also the education and the overall experience that they have during the week. We have over 70 percent of our clients that are used to come back. Some of them are coming back since 30, 40 years. So, again, for us, this part is really, really crucial. We are used to say that our most important marketing is the word of mouth now, because that’s the reality. The most important, the marketing that we can have, people that are getting results coming to us and are now recommending Clinique La Prairie to friends and family members.

Peter Bowes: [00:34:42] Let me ask you both in closing, and I often ask my guests this question in terms of what you yourselves have have learned during your careers about health and wellness. How do you apply that knowledge to yourself in terms of your own daily wellness regimes? Is the one or two things perhaps that you can be specific about that you insist on doing every day because you know, it is going to be very beneficial to your own longevity. Dr. Heini, first. 

Adrian Heini: [00:35:12] A pleasure. Certainly, I, like many of us when went through a stressful time, through overworking, almost burnout. And yes, what I learned is that the work life balance it’s not just like a slogan, the work life balance is really about work life balance. Right. Because the let’s say the recovery can be very concentrated, can be, you know, several days vacation, but it can be a few hours. What is clearly important has even an impact on longevity and brain health. Brain plasticity is that we need to learn. We need to acquire tools to make breaks to to like separate work from life in the morning to get into your day with us. Personally, I do it with Qigong. Others do it with meditation or whatever.

Peter Bowes: [00:36:22] Qigong what’s that? 

Adrian Heini: [00:36:23] Qigong is actually the Chinese Tai Chi exercises.  it’s a combination between breathing and moving exercises that bring like a certain harmony of your inner energy flow and which puts you somewhere in the sun. In the middle of the of the nature of the world, this thing is extremely important. Of course, it has to be combined with a healthy diet, with some regular exercise. But again, I think the important thing is that it’s not that you you need that many hours. If you can if you if you follow a certain minimal routine according to what personality you can, you can concentrate recovery also in your shorter time. It’s just has to be done, you know, and you have to avoid to to just go into two beds with the routine problems. It’s not easy. It’s not easy to do it, but you have to acquire that.

Peter Bowes: [00:37:32] Well, that’s the issue, the big issue, isn’t it, Simone, that we all live busy lives these days while we’re all trying to multitask and and probably fit in too much work. So I’m curious, what’s your daily routine?

Simone Gibertoni: [00:37:44] Personally, I’m I have a one hour routine in the morning that is really precious for me, which is one of 20 minutes of yoga, 20 minutes of transcendental meditation, which, again, if I can suggest to your listener, is really a life changing routine to really to include this twice a day. It is 20 minutes for for practicing meditation. And then I’m used to every 20 minutes of visualization about my daily objective and what they want to reach. And of course, I’m I’m I’m using our detox supplement in the morning, which I find very useful. And plus, there are all the very important guidelines about nutrition that we all know so well, and in particular that I would suggest to lower as much as possible animal protein. And of course, in our case, we have this big chance of having all these therapies and research and supplement, which I’m used to take with the really astonishing results from this point of view.

Peter Bowes: [00:38:58] And do you have a vision for your own longevity and your own healthspan? Are you the kind of person who actually thinks about what it’s going to be like or what you’re going to be like in terms of your physical and mental capacity in the decades to come? Do you have a goal at least?

Simone Gibertoni: [00:39:14] First of all, I think that what you said is very important for us. We have always to think about what is going to happen in the next 20 years in our field. We are just now doing quite important research about the future of of longevity. So what’s happening? And it’s really super interesting to interview all these people and to understand from all the people working with us what could be the future in our field. Personally you know, I like the idea of doing what I do for the next 50 years or I need to stay fit and I need to be able to do this. At least I say for the next 50 or so, we could give us the goals of having the next the next podcast together. In 50 years or so, we could already be working our agenda, the next podcast in 2070. What do you think, Peter?

Peter Bowes: [00:40:07] That is a great goal and let’s hope we can do that in person rather than across the Internet. Like we’re trying to do this one.  look both. This has been a really fascinating conversation. You mentioned Simone many conversations about longevity. That’s exactly what we do here. And it’s really good to collaborate with you on that goal. Thank you both very much.

Simone Gibertoni: [00:40:26] Thanks.

Adrian Heini: [00:40:26] Thank you.Take care.

Peter Bowes: [00:40:28] And if you would like to find out more, I will put some links and some details into the show notes for this episode at the Live Long and Master Aging Website that’s at LLAMApodcast.com LLAMApodcast.com In social media. You’ll find us @LLAMApodcast. You can contact me directly @PeterBowes. This podcast is at Healthspan Media Production. This episode produced in association with Clinique La Prairie. And a quick reminder we’re available at all of the major podcasting platforms, including Apple podcasts, where you can rate and review us. Do take care. And many thanks for listening.