Redefining healthy eating

Elizabeth Borelli (00:00) We all feel that stress sometimes that need to like, you know, have some comfort food. And so for me, I go, okay, I need to slow down, take a little time and I make myself a cup of tea. I hope you’re drinking tea. 

Peter Bowes I am. I am drinking tea, yes.

Peter Bowes (19:13) Hello again. Welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast. I’m Peter Bowes. This is where we explore the science and stories behind human longevity with the goal of optimising our health span and mastering the ageing process. Well, today in this episode, a new attitude towards food. Elizabeth Borelli is the author of Tastes Like la Dolce Vita, her new book in which she shares her holistic and joyful approach to wellbeing and vitality. And I guarantee if you enjoy eating good, tasty, healthy food, well this book will certainly tickle your taste buds and I hope encourage you to want to join in. Elizabeth, it’s great to talk to you.

Elizabeth Borelli (00:57) Thank you, Peter. It’s a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

Peter Bowes (01:01) Yes, it’s really good to meet you. And of course, when we’re talking about eating food and enjoying our diets, the emphasis is on healthy food. And I suppose that the crucial issue is how we define healthy food. And that’s what you really dive into in a great amount of depth in your book.

Elizabeth Borelli (01:21) Absolutely.

Peter Bowes (01:24) Could you give me a, let’s say, a quick elevator pitch description of what healthy food is?

Elizabeth Borelli (01:32) I’m glad you asked. And the reason I didn’t jump in when you mentioned the word healthy is because healthy has a bad rap, the word healthy. So I’ll give you an example. Years ago when, before I started any of this coaching, wellness coaching work, I loved to bake, but I also liked to, I also had a mindful approach to baking. So I would bake muffins, for example, and I would substitute some of the maybe oils or fats or some of the less healthy ingredients with things like Greek yogurt and even pumpkin puree, things like that. And I would bring them into work and no matter, you know, what was going on that day, I’d say, Hey, I brought in some baked goods I made. Everyone was happy. Everyone ate the baked goods. But if I said, made some healthy, I made some healthy muffins or some healthy cake, whatever it was, suddenly no one would touch it. And that was probably 30 years ago. So that was when I realized the word healthy just has like a negative connotation. And it’s unfortunate because really if we remove just that, you know, I guess moniker, then we don’t even realize a lot of the foods we enjoy the most are healthy, but sort of when we categorize them that way, it makes people feel like, they must be giving up something or there’s that element of it won’t be as good or it won’t be as delicious, whatever it is. So for me, the word healthy is fresh whole foods. A lot of the things we know, but it’s incorporating really the best quality ingredients. It’s taking a mindful approach to food. So it’s really a more holistic definition than healthy, avoid oil or avoid bacon. It’s really a holistic approach that focuses on the best quality, the freshest, the best ingredients you can use, the most flavorful ingredients you can use. I like that approach better.

Peter Bowes (03:46) It’s fascinating isn’t it though? You say and I understand totally what you mean that people recoil at the word healthy and it doesn’t just apply to food, it applies to healthy lifestyles. Exercise, going to the gym, going for a long hike can be healthy but some people kind of recoil just purely from the use of the word. Why do you think that is?

Elizabeth Borelli (04:05) I think it’s because it’s become prescriptive in our society. So like you said, healthy, go to the gym and work out for 30 minutes. That sounds a lot less fun than go take a walk out in nature and enjoy the beautiful day and appreciate your surroundings. And, you know, I think in a lot of societies, it’s just these things are sort of built in. And that’s one of the things I touch upon in my book is  my trip to Italy that inspired the book really helped me to notice how in different cultures, people are just doing these things and they’re a part of how they enjoy life. And I really liked that approach. I think it’s much more sustainable than saying you better get healthy and go to the gym for 30 minutes or an hour every day and work out. It’s definitely a different, just a different way of approaching the same thing.

Peter Bowes (05:05) Well, you mentioned your trip to Italy and that really is how this journey for you started. There were some pivotal moments there. If you could just recount for us what that journey involved and what you learned.

Elizabeth Borelli (05:19) Well, it happened last year in the summer. was taking a trip with my family vacation and it was around this time I had been prior to all of this. I had been working in the health and wellness field and I’d written a book about healthy eating called Beanalicious Living and that was in 2013 and I’d spent a lot of time trying to understand how to get people to make better choices for themselves. So, you know, through the course of that work, I did get discouraged. I realized that it’s really hard for people to make changes even when they want to, even when they want to make better choices in terms of their diet and exercise. Actually doing it and sustaining it is a whole other story. So I’d gotten a little disenchanted, let’s say. with that work and I was focused more on leadership development and different kinds of coaching when I took this trip to Italy. And while I was in Italy, we were staying in a villa and in the villa there was a kitchen. So we were gonna be cooking. So as opposed to going out to restaurants all the time, we were actually planning to go to the Italian grocery stores and this small village where we were staying in Tuscany. So we go to the grocery store, you know, it wasn’t a tourist area per se, it was just a local village grocery store. And I was so surprised at the difference between the grocery stores here in the U.S. and that one where ingredients were fresh, they were plentiful, there wasn’t all the packaged food. In fact, the frozen, the aisles of frozen food and the aisles of packaged food that we have here just didn’t exist. And instead a lot of the emphasis or most of the emphasis was on fresh, healthy and local. And that just struck me because you would have to go to a really fancy grocery store in the U.S. to find this. And this was just a small, small town grocery. And so that was that was clue number one that something was different between the, I guess, approach to food in the U.S. or the food culture in the U.S. and in other countries, at least in Italy. So I kept that in mind and over the course of the trip, it really started to awaken this, I guess, interest in the way people were living differently, noticing the fact that people were outside, they were congregating in the town squares, they were enjoying each other’s company and getting to know some of the people and learning that this was absolutely an integral part of their culture where community gatherings often involve food and the slow, mindful approach to eating that we seem to be missing in the U.S. 

Peter Bowes (08:26) So this is the Mediterranean way of life. And I’m curious in terms of all of your many observations on that trip, what were the key ones that you brought back with you that actually became habits for you? I know a lot of people will travel and see something that they think is potentially beneficial for them, return home and forget all about it. But I know you brought a lot of these ideas home with you and they became part of your routine, part of your daily habit.

Elizabeth Borelli (08:52) Absolutely. Well, one of them, and I would say one of the biggest ones because well, I already liked to cook and I already was doing a lot of cooking with fresh whole ingredients. So that was something I had already been doing. But what I hadn’t been doing is sitting down for every meal. A lot of times I’d be eating on the go, grab and go like most of us. So I started really making it a big intention to make sure that I sat down and slowly enjoyed every meal. So rule number one for me was sit and eat. The other thing I brought back was adding a lot more courses and fresh whole ingredients to the meals I was making. So I noticed in Italy that the meals were served in smaller plates and in courses. So, and I’m talking about lunch and dinner. And so it would start with maybe an antipasto, which is a little bit of nibbly kinds of, you know, whatever, whatever your favorite nibbles are. And then a salad. And then if you were going to have another course after that, it might be a pasta or another protein source like fish. And then they would often finish with coffee or even a little dessert. So just that process of adding courses to the meal stretches out the eating time, which is really healthy for both digestion and being able to recognize when you’re satiated. So it also helps with that tendency to overeat that comes when we’re eating fast. And so I would say those were two of the biggest ones.

Peter Bowes (10:44) And you write in your book, and this kind of struck home to me, you said the secret to lasting wellness is not a quick fix, but a lifestyle built on small, meaningful habits. And I think you, what you’re saying is that we shouldn’t necessarily strive for total perfection in terms of when we’re choosing what to eat and how to eat. But it is those small steps, as you’ve described.

Elizabeth Borelli (11:08) Yes, absolutely. And it starts with awareness. So one of the things I have been advocating for a very long time is to read the labels on the side of the package, read the nutrition labels, because a lot of times we’ll see words like organic or healthy or fresh, and they are not words that are really regulated by the FDA. So it might still contain more than a day’s worth of sugar. Or some other unhealthy ingredients that may be natural, but not that you’d want to eat. So one of the things is just being aware of what you’re eating for in terms of the content and then awareness in terms of, you know, slowing down, eating more mindfully and just enjoying really savoring. That’s what word I really come back to a lot in the book. It’s really being sure to savor what you’re eating because it is an experience and you can get the most out of the experience and feel more satisfied with less when you’re mindful and slowing down and enjoying your food. 

Peter Bowes (12:16l) And what you’re talking about really is nourishing the soul. And this is something that you believe in, nourishing the soul as opposed to the body. And I think in this very fast lifestyle society that we live in these days, many of us move towards food purely because it nourishes the body and it helps us get through the next four hours and then the other quick meal. And there’s really very little thought given to nourishing the soul as to what it’s doing for us more than just giving us immediate energy.

Elizabeth Borelli (12:48) Absolutely. And when you think about food, it’s a mandatory process. If we don’t continue to eat, we would die. But it also is very emotional. So it’s not just, you know, a biological need. There’s a lot of emotional attachment to food as well. So when you think of it from that angle, there is a lot of opportunity to, you know, frequently people will reach for comfort food when they’re feeling stressed or they’ll stress eat. But comfort food doesn’t have to be a negative. It can be something that we use intentionally and become intentional about and just think back to what are the flavors or the textures or the foods that make me feel comforted and maybe have that element of nostalgia. And so how can I incorporate those intentionally into my life in a way that’s maybe a little bit healthier than eating the entire tub of ice cream?

Peter Bowes (13:51) What are your favorite comfort foods?

Elizabeth Borelli (13:53) I am a big tea lover. So for me, when I feel, because we all feel that stress sometimes that need to like, you know, have some comfort food. And so for me, I go, okay, I need to slow down, take a little time and I make myself a cup of tea. I hope you’re drinking tea? 

Peter Bowes (14:13) I am. I am drinking tea, yes.

Elizabeth Borelli (14:17l) Yeah. So I make myself a cup of my favorite chai. I add some oat milk. Sometimes they even add some protein powder if I just a little bit, if I need a little satiation and then it makes it’s a comforting warm drink that makes me feel good. And I know it’s, it’s not something unhealthy that’s going to cause a sugar crash later. So, so just preparing ahead and thinking of, okay, if I need something crunchy, I’m going to have some carrot sticks and hummus on hand instead of the bag of chips. But planning for what are those needs that you’re trying to meet and knowing that it’s okay to eat comfort food. It’s something you need emotionally and that’s an okay need to meet. Without the guilt.

Peter Bowes (15:04) Yeah, exactly. You know, I asked you about comfort food and you started talking about tea and I instinctively picked up my cup of tea without actually joining the dots there. So clearly for me, this is a little comforting moment there, I think. Let’s talk about your book. And this is your second book. This is your third, isn’t it?

Elizabeth Borelli (15:20) Yeah, well, it was, I feel like it was almost a rewrite of the first book that I’d written in 2013, which was Beanalicious Living. And that book was meant to inspire people to get on this journey of healthy eating, cooking at home, recognizing that cooking isn’t as difficult or time consuming as a lot of people believe it to be, especially if you haven’t been doing a lot of cooking. A lot is covering some of the same things I cover in this new book, Tastes Like la Dolce Vita, but it was much more written from a almost like a warning. Like if you don’t do this, you’ll have diet related disease. That was really like a lot of statistics around diet related disease, how to avoid it. Wlhat to do and it wasn’t really inspirational. I think at the time it was what I wanted to say but as I you know maybe matured in my coaching style 10 years later I realized that denial is not going to sell anybody anything long term. It’s not sustainable. So this book I guess refreshed my interest in  sharing a similar message, but in a much more inspirational and aspirational way. So do this because it’s fun. It will help you feel better. It will help you connect to other people. There’s just so many benefits beyond the health markers that are associated.

Peter Bowes (17:06) And you encourage people to fall in love with the process. That’s at the heart of it, isn’t it?

Elizabeth Borelli (17:13) Absolutely. Yeah. I think there’s a lot of discovery that can be had around cooking a lot of joy and excitement because let’s face it delicious food is exciting and joyful and when you can learn simple ways and that that’s really what the heart of this whole style and approach is that you don’t have to make everything from scratch. You can do some exploration and find your favorite pre-made sauces, add them to your roasted vegetables, and make an amazing meal that delights family and friends. Another approach I enjoy is doing the charcuterie board, where I invite people over to my house and I have the big wooden board, and I’ll say, let’s do a group charcuterie board. Bring your favorite nibbles, appetizers. And it doesn’t have to be made from scratch. They could get it at the local farmer’s market, but you know, something a little special that they enjoy. And it’s a great way to bring people together at, you know, host a gathering without having to do a tremendous amount of work. And it gives everybody something to share and talk about.

Peter Bowes (18:28) And that’s what puts a lot of us off making an event out of food, isn’t it? It’s the amount of work that has to go into it. And I think what really comes through strongly from your book is that it doesn’t have to be that way.

Elizabeth Borelli (18:38) No, and in fact, thinking of it that way is going to prevent you from hosting. So I’m all about making things easy and a lot more manageable. We’re all busy, but having community, inviting community, especially, you know, building those connections is so important, even as we age, keeping those connections going strong. So whether you’re living alone or with your family, this is an easy way to host and build those connections.

Peter Bowes (19:15) How much of your philosophy and your ideas is motivated by your own interest in your own longevity and how well you are going to live into the future decades? This is a podcast all about human longevity, achieving hopefully a long health span as opposed to a lifespan, but healthspan where we stay vital, free of chronic diseases for as long as possible and enjoy life and the emphasis being enjoying life while we move through those decades. How much of that do you think about and especially relating to how you relate to food and the diet that you eat?

Elizabeth Borelli (19:52) It’s a major emphasis. am really interested in the Blue Zones, the Blue Zones diet. I really aspire to, and I talk about it in my book, follow and advocate that lifestyle. And I think in this day and age, especially, we really need to…keep that focus on healthy aging, disease-free aging, because we don’t know what will happen with our healthcare system. We do know that bankruptcy due to health, diet-related, health-related disease is a real issue for a lot of people. So it’s not only about, you know, looking and feeling good, it’s also a financial decision. And there’s like so many more things that go into it because I also believe that I hear people say, well, you know, I don’t, I don’t have to worry about that till I’m in my eighties, but people are living longer and longer and you probably will be in your eighties at some point. And at that point, if you haven’t taken care of your health, you’re going to live with the repercussions of that. And I think people are really focused a lot in our society on immediacy. It’s the immediacy bias, but I think we’re gonna get there at some point in our lives and then you don’t wanna live with the regrets of what you could have changed but didn’t.

Peter Bowes (21:21) It’s something I come across all the time in different walks of life and different areas of interventions that we can do to ourselves to help us live longer and better. That attitude that’s, well, it’s something for tomorrow. And I think if I’ve learned anything from the many interviews I’ve done with people like yourself, scientific researchers, longevity researchers, it is that what we have learned, let’s say in our middle, midlife or older years, if only we had applied than in our younger years and adopted those attitudes, those habits, and let’s say in relation to healthy eating in our twenties, we will be in a very different position in our forties and fifties rather than beginning to think about it in midlife.

Elizabeth Borelli (22:05) Absolutely. And I think it comes back to that idea that, well, if I want to get healthy, I have to give up a lot. I have to, you know, start really turning my life upside down and take all the fun out of it. And so that’s why this approach to starting where you’re at, discovering, learning some of the things you can do differently that will support the changes you want to make that you can do gradually and sustainably. So finding your way individually, it’s an individual path. So I think a lot of times we might read a magazine or, you know, tune into some expert that says, okay, here’s what you have to do. And that might not work for you. That might be the last thing you want to do, but there is something that you can do to get closer to that, that your health goals that would be more sustainable for you and enjoyable and just taking that time and finding out what that is.

Peter Bowes (23:07) Based on what you know now yourself, is there something if you could have a conversation with your younger self, you and your teens or your early twenties, based on the knowledge that you have in this area now, what would you say? What would you most like to say to your younger self?

Elizabeth Borelli (23:23) I would say, and this is based on the first book that I wrote, I would say it doesn’t have to be black. It’s not black and white. And I think that my approach to diet, my approach to coaching, health advocacy, wellness has changed from don’t ever eat that to there’s room for everything, moderation. And you know, the more, the less stringent, less black and white approach is ultimately more sustainable.

Peter Bowes (24:04) I like that you use the word moderation. It’s something I talk about quite a lot in terms of whether it’s to do with the food that we eat, whether it’s to do with exercise or many other aspects of our lifestyles. It can seem to some people to be quite a boring word and a boring attitude that moderation in everything is probably the best way forward. But you know, it really is, isn’t it?

Elizabeth Borelli (24:27) Yeah, absolutely. Cause I think if we, you know, if you decide I’m, this is it, New Year’s Eve, I’m making my resolution. I’m going to go to the gym and at five days a week, an hour a day, that’s not moderation. And that’s the kind of approach that backfires. So, you know, the, the gradual, the making it part of your routine that you can learn to enjoy is the most sustainable.

Peter Bowes (24:52) Just talking of New Year, and obviously we’re in New Year now, that kind of attitude that people start the next 12 months with that they are going to, this is going to be the year that I will do all of these things. What is your best advice in terms of sticking to those changes, albeit small changes, not going excessively into a brand new…way of eating or excessive diet, exercise regime as you say, people who decide to make small changes to their lives, what’s your best advice in terms of sticking to those changes?

Elizabeth Borelli (25:20) Well, one of them is to set yourself up for success. So make sure you’ve got an environment that always supports those changes because otherwise you’ll just forget. So a lot of our habits are subconscious. So we’ve got to start sort of at the beginning of the week and with our grocery shopping list and maybe with our calendar. And I always say, I teach workshops and I always say, if it’s not in your calendar, if it’s not written down, you’ll have all the best intentions leaving this workshop, but then you’ll go back to your routine because that’s just how the human brain works. So it’s making sure that you’ve got this, you’re set up for success and have everything you need to be able to make the healthy choice, the choice that you are leaning toward the easiest choice. And even with the social support as well. So if you can find a partner, a friend, even a meetup group that helps you to reinforce those changes. That’s another really great approach.

Peter Bowes (26:26) Is there a difference for you between routines and habits? Someone wants to describe to me that habits come from the soul. They are more meaningful for you as opposed to routines which can be sometimes quite pedestrian and easily dropped.

Elizabeth Borelli (26:40) Yeah, I would think I would say that habits are something that are just deeply ingrained in our subconscious. So you’re doing it without even thinking and routines or something. Maybe you have to give a little more thought to maybe you have to give some intention to where habits will just naturally happen because they’re they’re in the hard drive.

Peter Bowes (26:56) When we chatted before this interview, you sent me a little survey about my eating habits. I just want you to describe to me what that is and maybe we can encourage people to have a go. But essentially the idea is that it’ll tell you what kind of eater you are.

Elizabeth Borelli (27:13) Yes, absolutely. And this came from questions like, I want to change my eating habits. What should I do right now? And I can’t really answer that question without knowing what your eating habits look like. And for a lot of us, we’re not really aware of what our eating habits are. We’re just, like you said, it’s a habit. It’s self or subconscious. It’s just happening. And for a lot of us, that’s snacking all day or overeating at a single meal or mindless eating. So it could be any number of these things. And so this eating habits personality assessments, a way to just get you to be more aware of what are the things I’m doing subconsciously that are undermining my goals. So you might say, well, I’m eating three balanced meals a day and I’m really carefully eating. But if you’re snacking all that of the time in between, that’s the issue you need to look out for. So it’s about building self-awareness so that you can make effective changes to your eating habits.

Peter Bowes (28:25) Well it’s a quick fun survey. I’ll put the link to it in the show notes for this episode. I did it. takes five minutes. I’m an efficiency eater. What does that tell you about me?

Elizabeth Borelli (28:37) It tells me that you’re not placing a lot of emphasis on food, that you’re using food really to just nourish your body and you have more of a pragmatic approach to food than an emotional one. Is that accurate?

Peter Bowes (28:52) Which is right on the nail because my friends and family say that I view food as fuel and that I’m not that interested in the delicacies, the intricacies of a menu, shall we say, and that I’m the kind of person that would be quite happy eating the same thing at the same time. It sounds deeply boring, but the same thing at the same time every single day, as long as it nourishes me and gives me fuel. Is there anything necessarily wrong with that?

Elizabeth Borelli (29:18) No, not at all. You’re not a foodie and that’s perfectly fine. That’s great. You’ve discovered a healthy approach, I’m assuming, based on the subject of your podcast that works for you and you’re not struggling with a lot of the emotional eating challenges that many, many of us are. So no, that’s great.

Peter Bowes (29:41) I think what it’s shown me, and I would acknowledge all of that, I think there is still part of me that would like to be a little bit of a foodie and that maybe one day when I have the space in my life to think about that, because I think you need time. You need that white space in your calendar to some extent to really focus a little bit more on food as opposed to just thinking, well, there’s a quick meal for the energy that I need. I think it would be nice to indulge a little bit and maybe that’s still to come.

Elizabeth Borelli (30:09) Yes, absolutely.

Peter Bowes (30:11) Let me ask you, Elizabeth, in closing, as you look to the future and maybe look in terms of your own life to the decades ahead, what are your aspirations? We talk about longevity here, healthspan, being as healthy as we can for as long as we can. Do you have specific goals and aspirations that you’re chasing?

Elizabeth Borelli (30:30) I would say specifically to maintain my energy, mobility and joie de vivre into my 90s. That’s my goal.

Peter Bowes (30:41) Yeah, absolutely. And what is it about what you have learned over the years, the knowledge that you’ve acquired, that you will most try to stick to in the decades to come to try to achieve that great age?

Elizabeth Borelli (30:55) Well, it’s a holistic approach, as I’m sure you well know, and it involves getting a good sleep, going to bed at the same time every night, getting a good solid sleep, moving my body daily, and a really delicious, healthy diet that I focus on incorporating the healthy, whole, nutritious foods that I love into my routine every day.

Peter Bowes (31:20) Interesting, you mentioned sleep. What is your relationship between sleep and food? I know a lot of people, based on lot of good science that’s around these days, like to have a very significant gap between their last meal and the time that they go to bed.

Elizabeth Borelli (31:35) I agree with that. I also think having, you know, being careful about what you’re eating in the evening. Not avoiding any kind of caffeine related substance, including chocolate. And I really, and of course avoiding too much to drink alcohol wise. And I’ve lately been having a nice strong cup of chamomile tea before bed. And it really does a great deal of, it does wonders to help when you wake up in the middle of the night, which I know a lot of us do as we age, it helps with that gap, the wake up gap helps to shorten it. It makes getting back to sleep a little bit easier.

Peter Bowes (32:12) It certainly does. Is alcohol a no-no the closer you get to bedtime? Again, what’s your relationship with food and alcohol and lifestyle?

Elizabeth Borelli (32:21) Well, in the Mediterranean diet, advocate, not advocate, well, no, they really do advocate a glass of red wine at night with dinner. And so I suggest that if you’re going to drink wine with food is a great option. You don’t have to drink wine, but if you do pairing it with your evening meal so that you’re not drinking just after dinner because that I think can interfere with sleep. I’m not a sleep expert, but I knew that for a lot of people it does.

Peter Bowes (32:55) It’s actually very personal, it? We all respond and there’s no recipe for everyone here. We all respond to food, alcohol and to sleep to a large extent in very different ways. I think the idea is that you’ve just got to be quite thoughtful and understand your own body and get to know your own body and how it responds to certain foods.

Elizabeth Borelli (33:14) Agreed.

Peter Bowes (35:15) Well, look, Elizabeth, this has been fascinating. There’s much more in the book that we haven’t delved into. It’s a fun read. And I think, well, there’s that word fun. And you talk a lot about joy, don’t you? That’s crucially important. I wish you all the best with it. And thank you very much indeed.

Elizabeth Borelli (33:32) Thank you, Peter. It was an absolute pleasure.