How to Outpoint Father Time | Gunnar Peterson

Gunnar Peterson: [00:00:00] Don’t shoot the messenger. But here’s how the movie ends, right? We all die. You’re losing this fight against Father Time. So what I would say is try to outpoint Father Time during a few of the rounds. Don’t just sit there and be a punching bag. Like take your shots.

Peter Bowes: [00:00:21] Hello again. Welcome to the Live Long podcast. I’m Peter Bowes. Now, for more than 30 years, Gunnar Peterson has trained leading athletes and some of Hollywood’s best known performers. He was also director of strength and endurance for the Los Angeles Lakers. Gunnar’s focus is functional strength. Training that improves not only athletic performance, but the way we move through everyday life. He is now head of performance and a partner at Solbasium, helping to develop red light therapy and recovery technology.

Gunnar Peterson: [00:00:57] Wow. Thank you. I hope I can live long up to that, I appreciate the introduction.

Peter Bowes: [00:01:03] Well, that’s that’s the goal to live as long as we can and maintain optimum health. Healthspan is is what we aim for. And red light therapy does fascinate me. It’s something I’ve been using myself for some time. I’m just curious though, Gunnar, you’ve been training athletes and other people for for decades, as I say. Did the concept or would the concept of a red light therapy device, this little gadget at the beginning of your career have just blown your mind?

Gunnar Peterson: [00:01:30] Yeah, I wouldn’t have thought. Well, first of all, I wouldn’t have understood it, but I definitely wouldn’t have thought it possible and now the wireless ones too, like it’s just, where it’s going. And I’ve actually heard our CEO and founder, Bradley talking about this and saying that where it’s going to be in ten years will blow your mind from now. So again, you talk about the live long podcast. We’re trying to live as long as we can, if nothing else, just to see where the red light therapy development goes.

Peter Bowes: [00:01:58] I want to dive into it a little bit more with you. And you mentioned Bradley. I’m going to be talking next to Bradley. So the next episode we discuss maybe in a little bit more technical detail, but it’s fascinating to get your perspective, I suppose, as an end user and with athletes can potentially benefit from just before we do that, though, are you traveling at the moment? I know, but you are based in Nashville right now. You relocated there a few years ago and that’s where you operate your gym.

Gunnar Peterson: [00:02:26] It is. I’m in Nashville now, actually in Franklin, just south of the city. So I was in LA for a long time and, the stars aligned and it was time and, and we made the move and I opened a different gym called Common Ground in Franklin. And, it’s, it’s been everything we hoped it to be and adding tools like the Solbasium red light bed and the, and the different attachments that go well. And they also have a percussive device. And a good friend of mine, Jason, Doctor Laughlin created the Theragun. Years ago, the handheld percussive device. Right. And even that was was revolutionary. And the first one, you know, admittedly sounded like a jackhammer. And I think his line was, I can’t sacrifice sound for science because he wanted a certain amplitude. he got that and now it’s quieter. And now I the Solbasium has, I mean, many people create the handheld percussive device, but now so has a percussive device with red light therapy. I mean, it just it keeps getting better is what I’ll say.

Peter Bowes: [00:03:31] You mentioned your gym is called Common Ground. Just curious, how did you arrive at that name?

Gunnar Peterson: [00:03:37] I think the gym is the common ground. It’s where everyone is equal. Everybody goes in with their own goals, their own ideals, and the weights don’t care how old you are, how big you are, what your body composition is, how much money you have, what your responsibilities are. I think, fitness is a level playing field and it just, we’re all the same in there and it’s a nice place for people from all walks of life to come together and, and do something good for themselves and ultimately for the ripple effect that it has on their respective lives.

Peter Bowes: [00:04:12] And I guess that is the point you’ve worked over, as I say, many decades with musicians, with elite athletes, with other performers on the big screen, on the small screen. But we’re all ultimately people, aren’t we? So we all might have different goals in terms of our physical appearance, our physical performance. But the basic needs don’t change, do they? From human to human?

Gunnar Peterson: [00:04:35] No. And the body is going to work the way the body works on everybody. And, the risks of injury are there for all of us. And the, we need the body to be working for us, not against us. And we need to do what we can to help it do what it does naturally. If you, if you feed it right, if you let it recover properly, if you train it with whatever degree of intensity you can, withstand as often as you can while getting the recovery in between, it’s going to serve you well, but when you don’t, it will. It’s not that it lets you down. That’s the thing people say, oh, my body let me down. I think it’s the other way around. I think you let your body down. I think you didn’t care for it. And you know, even the most, well built, well tuned race car has to go into the shop from time to time. It has to be serviced properly. You have to put proper fuel in it. And I think people take for granted their bodies, especially during, you know, what do they say? youth is wasted on the young. I think when you’re young, you, you take it for granted. And as we get older, I can’t tell you the number of people that that what can I do? I haven’t done this. And the body is extremely forgiving. But the more you treat it well, the more it’s going to give you a hall pass. When things do go sideways.

Peter Bowes: [00:05:55] And has the the concept of recovery and what we can do to help ourselves recover from physical exercise. Has that changed? Clearly, it has changed over the years from when you first started training up to the present day, where we can incorporate all of this technology.

Gunnar Peterson: [00:06:13] I think by many it was taken for granted just early on. It was, if I’m working out, I’m good. Check the box. And now I think recovery. If you’re using that as an umbrella term, is its own pillar, equal in importance and intensity as the other pillars of strength training, cardiovascular work, stress mitigation, fuel, hydration supplementation to, to a degree, all those things factor in and I think to, to not count wellness among them and give it its just due, you’re going to come up short, you are going to leave performance on the table and you’re going to leave benefits and gains on the table.

Peter Bowes: [00:06:55] Are you comfortable with the term wellness? You’ve just used it. I know some traditional trainers, certainly here in Los Angeles. The common terminology that is often applied to being physically in optimum condition is sometimes maybe lost on people who have those original values in terms of training. Well, I guess what I’m saying is what does wellness actually mean to you?

Gunnar Peterson: [00:07:18] Yeah, that’s a that’s a funny question. And, I will say initially when that word started being bandied about, I’d say the first time I heard it was probably 20 years ago. I definitely felt pushed back. I thought, what are you talking about wellness. That’s not. I work in a gym, I lift weights, I push, I do carries, I deadlift. And so it was, it was it sounded too soft, I guess is probably the right way to describe it. But when you look at it in from an all encompassing standpoint, it is overall wellness. It is how how are you? I’m well today, doing well, but but yeah, it’s just a broad strokes term. I mean, to me it’s quality of life. That’s really that’s really what we’re looking at. You and I said this off air. It’s not just how long you live, it’s how long you live. Well, right.

Peter Bowes: [00:08:09] And I think perhaps for some people, you say it’s kind of got a softer edge wellness. There are a lot of people who don’t want to go to the gym. They don’t want to necessarily lift weights 2 or 3 times a week, but they still want to be physically healthy. And and this is, I think, where the functional training comes in that there’s a lot of things that people can do, especially older people that involve moving the body that involve lifting weights in everyday life, that can promote wellness without having that sort of idea of, I’ve got to go to the gym.

Gunnar Peterson: [00:08:39] Yeah. I think people, it becomes this ominous thing that’s sitting out there, whether it’s out there on your schedule or just in the back of your mind and you know, you’ve got to do it. I think if you start to find a way to embrace the process of it and enjoy it. You’ll start doing it more often, I think. Instead of looking at it as something. It’s a, it’s more of a get to than a have to kind of thing. And, and if it just becomes part of your day, like I never talk about my workout. It’s just a funny thing. I have people who text me from all over friends and people I don’t know. I do this and this, I did this and this. And to me, it’s like, describing your shower. You know, I got in, I checked the water, it was a little warm, so I turned it down a little bit. And then I put, I put shampoo in first and then I let it set. And then I washed my body while the shampoo set. It’s. Why are you describing this to me? Why is why is why does the workout deserve to be reviewed? It should literally just be part of your day. Not that it’s not a feeling of accomplishment. And you should definitely enjoy that and count that as a win. But I think overanalyzing it all the time becomes, It’s odd. I don’t think you need to. I think it becomes part of your day and you realize that everything you did during that workout serves everything else you do.

Peter Bowes: [00:09:55] It’s like developing a positive habit that people often talk about these days. A habit is something clearly that you do really without thinking. You just do it every day. And certainly that’s my approach to to exercise. And I do go to the gym, actually went to the gym a couple of hours ago. It is part of my life, but it isn’t something. And I think a lot of people take this attitude that it isn’t something that I’ve got to do. It is that habit of going for me every Tuesday and Friday because I just do it.

Gunnar Peterson: [00:10:22] It becomes your identity for a lot of people, and that’s not a bad thing. But then once that I just, oh gosh, I just read something, they said it was a different it was a difference between motivation and obsession. They say in the beginning, you’re motivated and you’re obsessed, but over time, your obsession just becomes part of who you are. So you’re not necessarily obsessed with like, I think about my own workout when I go, like, I just wrote my workouts for the people I’m seeing tomorrow. And I do think about them. I don’t obsess over them. It’s just something to do. It’s like I think about, oh, I have to take a shower or I have to get the meal ready. But but I’m not obsessed anymore. It’s just part of the makeup.

Peter Bowes: [00:11:04] Yeah. Fascinating. So let’s skip back to red light therapy. When did red light therapy as a as a treatment first enter your exercise routine or not necessarily your exercise regime, but just your way of life? When did red light therapy first become part of it, and how were you able to, I suppose, distinguish any sort of measurable benefit from it?

Gunnar Peterson: [00:11:26] I heard clients talking about it a number of years ago about doing a red light sauna. And they, it wasn’t super hot, like traditional sauna. It wasn’t, you know, 160 to 190. It was less than that, but it was still warm. But they got all the benefits of the red light. So I looked into it. What does it do? You know, it’s, it’s supposed to support recovery after exercise. Physical activity can reduce it can reduce temporary soreness, support circulation and blood flow. So I read all the things about it and I just thought, I have a sauna, but I don’t have a red light one. Do I need to get one of those? And then you saw panels coming out and then now at Solbasium they have attachments for different parts of your body. There’s a there’s a lower back one, there’s an elbow one, there’s a knee one, there’s an ankle one, and there’s a utility one. And it’s just such an easy tool to use. And while we all know you can’t spot reduce in the gym, you know, you can’t just do crunches to make your belly fat go away. But you can spot treat with red light therapy. You can put it on an affected area and genuinely help it. And the fact that it’s portable, it’s literally I, it sounds crazy. It sounds like we’re living in the future and we are.

Peter Bowes: [00:12:43] Well, that’s the whole point that I try to make at the beginning that it does still, I think feel to some people, quite futuristic that you can literally put this thing in your bag and carry it around the world and use it as you need it. But that is the times that we’re living in, isn’t it?

Gunnar Peterson: [00:12:57] It is. And I think there there are enough studies out there on it, and there are enough, people in the know, meaning people who rely on their body recovering. Like it’s part of how they earn their living. If you look at pro athletes, if you look at teams that are incorporating these protocols, oftentimes they lead the way because they’re sport scientists have read the literature, they they’ve read the studies and they go, yes, this is beneficial. We need to add this. Right? Just like saunas back in the day, just like cold plunges, which ironic, they’re making a comeback. Like why they ever went away. Who knows. But but all these things, when the science is there, when the studies back them, you watch the people that are the early adopters and you go, wait a minute, what are they doing? Why do they look so good? Why are they doing this? Why are they able to perform at this level night in and night out, or week in and week out? I want some of that. And that’s why I think now you get somebody who makes it and makes it affordable. It was cost prohibitive at the beginning, admittedly. But now you look at what Bradley’s done with Solbasium and they are you can make this work within your organization or your home. There are ways to do it now.

Peter Bowes: [00:14:12] And was it the fact that the science was convincing to you that persuaded you to go with Solbasium in terms of being a partner, rather than just an external voice and a supporter and a user of the technology that you thought, well, this really is worth getting involved in.

Gunnar Peterson: [00:14:27] That’s a great question because first I do anything, I try anything, I don’t do anything illegal, I don’t do any drugs, but I will do any protocol. I try everything because I feel like that’s kind of part of my job. I like to be in the know, and I like to be able to answer with a straight face and with a focus group of one. Yes, I’ve tried it. Here’s what my experience was. Good, bad, or indifferent, to my clients. And when I was able to get my hands, I, so I tried red light therapy. Fine. It was great. Interesting. I liked it, but admittedly it was expensive. and then when I connected with Solbasium and I, I thought, wow, great product, I understand this, I understand what he’s doing and he’s now made it affordable or, you know, more accessible and affordable. How could I not? How could I not get on board with this? I’m on board. And then it’s easy. Also way easier to tell clients about it. Way easier to tell friends. You know, my wife has one at home and her friends are asking. So it’s an easy it’s not a sell. I pride myself on I’m not selling anything. I’m sharing. I am telling you what I do. I am telling you what I tell people I do. And if they want to jump on, great. And if they want to do it now, great. And if they want to wait three years and then asked me about it. I’m sure they’re just going to get a better model, but they’ll be kicking themselves for not having started earlier.

Peter Bowes: [00:15:57] And is there one aspect, 1 or 2 aspects of red light therapy where you have seen the best results? Now I know the device can be used, or devices can be used for a number of different things for physical injuries, for gut health. A lot of people actually use red light therapy to help them sleep at night. But is there something that you’ve seen in terms of your own practical application of this device that you think, yeah, it’s probably best at that.

Gunnar Peterson: [00:16:24] So for me, the experience I get is reduced soreness and reduced inflammation. And I live in a state of soreness from my own workouts to what I do with my clients. I had a client years ago said, how many lunges do you think you do in a day? And I said, I’ve never really thought about it. I don’t know how many I do in a day, but I know it’s probably more than I need to and I’m going to do the same amount, if not more tomorrow. So it does help me with the soreness and overall inflammation. That’s the part I would tell people in terms of the skin. I don’t think I need to get on here and say, look at my skin. But if somebody’s going to say your skin looks good, then I’m going to say that’s what I do.

Peter Bowes: [00:17:06] And in terms of it’s always a number one question from people. The safety of using red light. You are clearly convinced that it is safe to use. You say you don’t do anything illegal, but you’re prepared to to try anything. But there’s a limit to trying things, isn’t there? And you’ve got a question as to whether you could potentially be doing yourself any harm.

Gunnar Peterson: [00:17:25] Yes. And from what I’ve seen and from the approvals that are out there, so far, it’s safe at this level for these recommended periods of time.

Peter Bowes: [00:17:34] And the science backs that up

Gunnar Peterson: [00:17:36] Bradley can get into that with you deeply, but, but just knowing that it’s been researched and done, you know, there are other things out there right now. I just had this conversation today about peptides with someone and they asked me if I’m on them, which, a, I’ll take as a compliment and b, I’m not. But I said to him, I’m not yet, because I just don’t see the studies, and I may be late to the party and. And I guess I’m okay if I, if I wait until the studies are out and they say they’re perfect. And this is the best thing since you know, the wheel and you should have gotten on it ten years ago. I’ll take that. I’ll come late to that party just knowing I did the right thing for myself. I think everybody should do what they want. It’s your body. It’s your life. Do what you want. I just can’t do, something like that until I’m convinced of the science, until I. Until I read it. And again, there might be enough out there for other people. There’s just not for me. So that’s a personal thing.

Peter Bowes: [00:18:37] This is the Live Long podcast. Our guest is Gunnar Peterson, renowned personal trainer and partner at the Red Light Therapy Company. Solbasium just broadening this out a little bit. You have, as I said in the introduction, you’ve been training people from different walks of life for some 30 plus years now. I’m just curious what you have learned from your clients. And I resisted the temptation to list a name of celebrities at the beginning because, well, we read in magazines, we read newspapers, which trainers are associated with celebrities. And, you know, honestly, I’m a little skeptical sometimes, and I don’t always want to believe what I read in the papers. So I didn’t want to approach this as a celebrity trainer linked to a long list of celebrities. But the fact is, you have trained with some pretty famous people and some strong personalities. What do you learn from your clients?

Gunnar Peterson: [00:19:28]  so to back up what you just said, yeah, I was in LA for 30. I trained people in LA for 30 years. and I’ve been in Nashville for four now. So I’m in my 35th year of doing this. I was lucky enough to work with a ton of people above title names, athletes as well from a number of different sports team sports and individual sports, men and women. And, I love being it’s funny, I do this presentation for trainers and I talk about who, who do you want to train and are you positioning yourself to train those people? Is there a demographic that you lean toward? Is there a demographic that you feel more comfortable with or that you think will benefit most from your services? I don’t think it has to be altruistic. I just want to work with obese people. I just want to work with kids. I want to work with, you know, bring back people from injury. I think it can I think no one should be judged on, on the the demographic that they enjoy training. I enjoy training high achievers. I enjoy training people who will not be denied. They will not be denied in their career and in their lives. And when they hit a setback in the career, in life, in physical that would set them back in the gym they are looking for a way to work around. you have to, you have to pump the brakes a little bit on working through because there’s no reason to cord injury, right? When the when the risk reward is not favorable. That’s not smart. So when they’re wanting to work around something, I love that I have a woman right now who just went through a surgery and she texted me and she said, when are you back? I’m ready to get back in the gym. I said, you’re out of your mind. You just came out of surgery. Your body’s healing. She goes, I can walk so I can come to the gym. And I said, you need to take it easy. But that type of person is who I like being around. So what I’ve taken from them, what I’ve been lucky enough to get from working around those people is a. And nothing is impossible if I work hard enough, if I work smart enough, I can make anything happen. And and I mean, obviously that’s some of that’s instilled in me from from my mom and dad. I’ve watched my brother reached tremendous heights of success, but being around people like that keep me getting up every day and pushing.

Peter Bowes: [00:21:50] Is there something, do you think, that people who are not outwardly high achievers, they’re not famous, they’re not Jennifer Lopez, they’re not Sylvester Stallone. They’re kind of to use the word ordinary people, but they aspire to be a high achiever, at least as far as their physical strength is concerned and their overall health. Is there something that they can learn from your experiences with these people who are really the the go getters who maybe inspire you to some extent, but is there something that the rest of us can learn from from that?

Gunnar Peterson: [00:22:22] Yeah, I wouldn’t I would go back to what you said earlier. I don’t see them as ordinary people. I think everybody’s an athlete. I think everybody’s a star. I think everybody’s a VIP, especially anybody who’s coming and hiring you for your services. And I put the same effort into their workout preparation that I would than I would the next person, you know, who you know, whose name you know, or is a household name. I think those people should take away that same mentality. I think if more people adopted the. I will not be denied. And it doesn’t mean to become belligerent or an ass about it. It’s. You just know that you are bringing so much to the table. It’s like I tell my kid I have a ten year old who plays football now, and he said, dad, I’m a backup at this and I’m gonna backup at that. And he’s a fifth grader playing with fifth and sixth. And I said to him, he said, how do you think I can? How do you think I can start? And I said, you have to be so good that the coach can’t deny you. You have to be undeniably good. And the only way to do that is to work harder than everybody else. Your middle of the road in terms of height, you’re middle of the road in terms of speed, in terms of strength, all you can do is outwork the next guy. And I pride myself on doing that. And I think those people you described as ordinary could also be that outwork the next guy and the victim, the victim mindset. You have to leave that at the door and you should leave it there forever. Frankly, there are no victims. I’m sorry if anything bad happened to you. At some point, you have to find a way to work through that and get over it. I am not diminishing how hard it might be. I can, and I can’t understand what people have gone through. But I also know that you must go forward.

Peter Bowes: [00:24:02] And does that apply to people who are. And some people may describe themselves as a victim of aging, of just getting older. They’re 50, 60, 70, and for some reason feel as if it is because of their age that they can’t achieve perhaps what they used to be able to achieve or what they still want to achieve?

Gunnar Peterson: [00:24:22] Look, Peter, I’m 50, 60 and almost 72. So yeah, I hear you. And you know, don’t shoot the messenger. But here’s how the movie ends, right? We all die. But you know, you’re losing this fight against Father Time. So what I would say is try to outpoint Father Time during a few of the rounds. Don’t just sit there and be a punching bag. Like take your shots. Push. Advocate for yourself. Step forward, put in the effort, and watch what happens, because it’s. It’s far more glorious than you know. Standing there and taking life’s beating.

Peter Bowes: [00:24:57] I’m with you. I’m 64 and I still have very much that attitude. However, one thing about getting older and aging, I think we have to recognize is that recovery is different, isn’t it? And you perhaps need to take it. I think all athletes need to take recovery seriously. But if you’re over 60, especially, you do need to think about how you behave on those nonexercise days, those non gym days, because ultimately it can pay dividends if you get it right.

Gunnar Peterson: [00:25:26] Not just the non-exercise non gym days, but the non-exercise non gym hours. If you can take a minute and and slow it down if you can, if you can get a quick session with a red light in a red light bed, if you can, if you can take a sauna, if you can add two minutes to your sauna, if you can if you can get in a pool one day and just move your body. If you could take a hot tub, you could take an Epsom salts bath. If you could take a nap. And I know that sounds like an old guy, but there is nothing wrong. When I worked in the NBA, the whole league shuts down after lunch and before the first bus, like phones are off, curtains are drawn, people shut it down. And that’s not just players, that’s staff as well, because you know that when you get up and get on that bus and go to the arena, that you have a very long night ahead of you and you’re going to have an early morning as well. And the older you get, the more serious you should take that. That’s not a bad thing. That’s to me, that’s like, that’s like getting a cheat sheet. I mean, I wish I had, I known it in my 20s, 30s, 40s, I probably would have been better at whatever I was doing this. But now knowing it, I’m so much smarter about my recovery. I have the Solbasium percussive device with the red light therapy in my office. If I get ten minutes in between, I’ll sit there and look at the computer and. And take it up and down my quad, up and down my calf, up into the armpit, on my shoulders, two, three, four, five minutes. Why wouldn’t I take that when I can get it?

Peter Bowes: [00:26:58] This is a podcast about human longevity. We’ve reflected on that. It is about living as long as we can, but still maintaining optimum health. I’m just curious what your attitude is towards your own long term health and your own longevity. Is it something that you maybe focus on more now than than you’ve ever done during your life?

Gunnar Peterson: [00:27:18] It definitely is. I focus, but I focus on having a full life. I’m not. I don’t abstain from. I will have a glass of wine with my wife. I will have a tequila. When friends come in town, I will have dessert with my kids. I’ll have an ice cream with my kids. But I would say I make better choices at meals. I’m not going to compare it to other people. I make good choices at meals often. Very often I make good choices at food timing. I don’t abuse, other I’m not an abuser of enhancement, things that enhance you your performance. I’m diligent with my workouts. I never miss my workouts. I carve out the time I back it up from whenever I have to get up. I just back the whole thing up. And I reverse engineered the day every single day like that. So I am good about that. but I’m not perfect. But I’m also not trying to be perfect. I want the life. You know, if if a friend comes in town, we may stay up too late chatting. If someone has to go to the airport early, I may get up extra early to knock out a workout in the house and then get the kids to school. All those things. There are ways to do it, but it’s just give and takes. And if you’re doing the most that you can, more often than not, I think you have the full life. And I, and I think there’s, there’s huge benefit to that. If you read that, I’m sure you’re familiar with when they talked about the Blue Zones and all that, and now that’s been completely debunked and they said, it’s not the Mediterranean diet.It’s not the number of steps. It’s not where they live in the world. It’s the two things that it came down to was, they managed their stress better and have less of it than other places. And they have, a companion in their life. And, and it doesn’t have to necessarily be a spouse, but they have relationships that are not just transactional in their lives. And so I look at some people, and I think you have to socialize. Funny aside, during Covid, when a lot of gyms closed down, my dad said to me, are you worried? Do you think, do you think they’re going to open gyms back up? Do you think that’ll ever be a thing again? I said, yeah, of course it will, dad. People need people. People need to be around people. And my dad is, is, a lone wolf bordering on a misanthrope. But he said, I don’t. And I said, okay, dad, you aside. People need interaction. People need other people. So I think Jim’s, of course are going to come back. They need that interaction. And then lo and behold, the studies come out and people do need those interactions with other people. So, so fill your life with good people. Make good decisions when you’re at the table. Make good decisions when you’re at a party, enjoy as much of it as you can and weather the storm by staying strong.

Peter Bowes: [00:30:16] I think the issue of social connections, especially that you’ve just mentioned is, is increasingly huge. And I think becoming relatable to people. We’ve heard so much. There are so many studies now about the loneliness epidemic that we’re seeing that only in the United States, but around the world. And the the negative physical consequences of just being alone and not associating with other people, that’s exactly what you’re talking about.

Gunnar Peterson: [00:30:41] Yeah, I believe it. I’ve seen it. I worry about it for some people I know, and and I just want to say you you have. I mean, look, you don’t have to do what you want to do, but but ultimately, it’s so much more fulfilling when you’re sharing things and when you’re open and when you’re in your, you’re enjoying other people’s, successes and, and, you know, I think early on we did this, I just did a presentation at this seminar that we put on, collaboration happens at the top. Competition happens at the bottom. Like it’s so nice to do things with people and collaborate and share in their success and enjoy and root them on instead of competing with everybody all the time.

Peter Bowes: [00:31:21] Gunnar, you’re doing really fascinating work. In the show notes for this episode, I’ll put some more details about red light therapy and how people can find out more, but I just want to thank you very much indeed. It’s been great to talk to you,

Gunnar Peterson: [00:31:33] Peter you were a terrific host. And, funny I said to you, those are great questions. I don’t say that very often, but I thought insightful. And I like that you see the big picture of understanding how red light therapy is part of an overall recovery plan and protocol. And, you know, people give it a try, try a sauna, try a cold plunge, try, what do they call it? Forest bathing. When you just walk in nature, all these things lend to greater overall quality of life. And I think that’s what your podcast is about. So it’s great to speak to you. I’m honored to be on. Thank you.

Peter Bowes: [00:32:06] I appreciate that so much. Thank you very much.

Gunnar Peterson: [00:32:09] Alrighty, sir.

Peter Bowes: [00:32:09] The Live Long podcast is a Healthspan Media production. I’m Peter Bowes. You can contact me through our website, livelongpodcast.com, where you’ll also find show notes for this episode.