AI and 3D printing deliver smart nutrition

Melissa Snover: [00:00:00] Cognitively, mobility wise self-esteem wise, strength. There is a certain untapped magic that we have not fully accessed yet that will change the way we think about longevity as we move forward, and AI is going to be part of that.

Peter Bowes: [00:00:23] How is the way we feed ourselves changing with advancing science and a deeper understanding of our individual needs as we age, what does future nutrition have in store for us? Hello again and welcome to the Live Long podcast I’m Peter Bowes. This is where we explore the science and stories behind human longevity. Melissa Snover is a registered dietitian and the founder of Nourished, a company that says it’s revolutionizing personal wellness with a focus on individual health and lifestyle needs. Melissa, it’s good to talk to you.

Melissa Snover: [00:01:00] It’s great to be here. Thank you for having me.

Peter Bowes: [00:01:03] Now, I guess personalized medicine or precision medicine is something we hear a lot about these days. What we’re talking about here is really precision nutrition.

Melissa Snover: [00:01:13] Absolutely. So our business actually does do, some work in the curative health space where we use additive manufacturing, 3D printing to allow doctors, patient care providers and drug developers to use 3D printers to customize the dosages. But our core product is called Nourished and under the nourished umbrella. We are really focusing on what we believe should be really 85% of our health journey, which is preventative. We really believe that if people get the right things in the right dosages in a way that is enjoyable so it can be adhered to, we can really make a meaningful difference in people’s health today and for the future as they age.

Peter Bowes: [00:02:00] So let’s take a step back and talk about you for a second. In terms of what brought you to this point in your career. As I mentioned, you’re a registered dietitian. Just give me a sense of where you come from and what inspires you to do what you’re doing now.

Melissa Snover: [00:02:15] Absolutely. So I actually came to the United Kingdom from the US to do my master’s in business, and while I was in school there, I started my first company as part of my dissertation project. And that was really the beginning of my journey as an entrepreneur. And since then, I have been developing and creating primarily nutritional solutions, which I felt were lacking from the available options on the market. So being a vegetarian from the 90s, I felt that there was a lot of things missing. And so I did a lot of work in gelatin free products and free form products and sugar free products and all natural ingredients. And I did this across multiple different areas for many years. When I sold the the last company, I had an opportunity to really, change the way that I was doing business. And I decided that I wanted to create a new way for products, food products to be manufactured. Having worked in some of the most famous, well-performing, large scale manufacturing facilities for food over the last ten years, I was always impressed by the quality by the volume, but I was even more frustrated by the lack of agility and flexibility that these facilities had to change anything is a huge endeavor. The minimum order quantities are, you know, several truckloads per variant. And so, when I had that opportunity, I decided I wanted to create a way for consumers to be able to access the product that they wanted and needed at that moment, and that was when I started working in the field of additive manufacturing.

Peter Bowes: [00:04:05] I’m always curious. You mentioned you’ve been a vegetarian since the 90s, and I think a lot of us who are interested in this area go on our own journeys and make decisions and change our dietary regimes based on our own interpretation of the science and how we feel about food. What was the motivator for you?

Melissa Snover: [00:04:25] So when I first became a vegetarian, it was really because of my love of animals. So it wasn’t to do with a health risk. I just felt that it was for me better to not eat animals. And really, at that time, because there was so few products available, it was such an underserved market. It was very misunderstood. That was really the beginning of my journey into learning about nutrition, because I never studied nutrition in university. I studied business and law and political science and engineering, but never, never nutrition. But I actually had to learn a lot about nutrition in order to ensure that I got the right kinds of components in my daily diet, to be able to keep myself well. And so I started to learn about the different amino acids that were present in different types of vegetables and legumes, and how if you combine them together, you could make complete amino acid proteins because it was really difficult to find vegetarian complete amino acid proteins. And that was really the beginning of my journey into learning about nutrition, learning about how all of the different elements work together and kind of, you know, cheat coding or biohacking my vegetarian journey to ensure that I still was getting enough protein for my very active lifestyle. And that was the beginning of a lifetime of learning.

Peter Bowes: [00:05:51] So let’s talk about Nourished in more detail. And really, let’s just go back to the basics, because this can get quite complicated. I know you mentioned 3D printing just now. Maybe explain that a little bit more detail as to how it applies to what you do. But I’m thinking for in quotes, the average person who might be aware that they’re not on the best of diets, and some people don’t like the use of the word diet because it implies reducing calories and trying to chase a goal that they never actually reach. So let’s just talk in terms of the food that we eat. And for someone maybe acknowledging that they could do better in terms of their nutrition, where do you suggest that people start applying the knowledge that you have and the services that you offer? What is the best starting point?

Melissa Snover: [00:06:37] So I think today, more than any day before now, it is easier for us to get really strong levels of correlative recommendation style information about our current diet, our current lifestyle, our current habits, our wearable data, biometric testing all of these different things are so readily available and relatively low cost to access now. So such a huge difference from even ten years ago, the amount of information at our fingertips and what we have done at Nourished is basically create an AI enabled algorithm which takes a series of information about an individual from their current health conditions, their lifestyle. So how well do you sleep? What do you eat on a daily basis? How do you exercise? How much sunshine do you get? How often are you ill? How much are you traveling? Screen time, all of these different things. And then it takes all of that information and benchmarks it against up to 100,000 different clinical trial data points that are relevant to that person. So if, for example, it’s a man in between the ages of 30 and 50. The algorithm and the data lake will only take the clinical data based on healthy adults or men between those ages. Right? So it will not take the clinical trial data on women with menopause and produce the recommendation. And so this this amazing tool that we built before ChatGPT continually is added to as more and more clinical research becomes available. And it takes a huge, huge number of different inputs into effect and then produces what we call an intelligent recommendation based on logic that is loosely adhered to the hierarchy of needs. So we’re not going to talk about the fact that, you know, you might want a little bit of extra collagen for your skin if you have really big deficiencies in your actual micronutrient requirement. So we’re talking about needs first and then lifestyle and then goals. You know what people I think like about the system is there is no judgment. There is no you should be eating this. You should be doing this or you really should be doing this. It’s just taking the truth, hopefully from the user and giving them a recommendation and all of the information and links that that recommendation is based on, with all of the information that we have already gone through and manually tagged and manually created these different logic assessments for.

Peter Bowes: [00:09:19] So this first stage is crucially about curating the data that we, most of us have at our fingertips and probably much more data than we really realize on a daily basis.

Melissa Snover: [00:09:30] Absolutely. So I think almost everyone that I know is, is using a wearable of some kind. These are wonderful because they’re so low aggravation for the user, right? I don’t have to write anything down. I don’t have to send blood samples in the post. But I’m just getting, you know, almost gamified data on a daily basis that helps me understand where I am. And this data on its own is already very powerful. But everyone knows you know how much screen time they have. Everyone knows what they eat on a daily basis. Those things alone will give us a huge amount of power to be able to make strong recommendations, you know? And we at Nourished we try and really focus on the science. And the science shows that actually taking one single blood test is not helpful at all. And unfortunately, that is what we find a lot of people do is one blood test. We actually don’t need that one blood test. If we can understand truly and honestly what you’re eating on a daily basis, that will help us to be able to assimilate what your deficiencies are.

Peter Bowes: [00:10:36] And of course, that one blood test is one moment in time.

Melissa Snover: [00:10:38] Exactly. And I really wish that somebody would put some regulations around the way that those are sold, because actually consumers are trying to do something good for their health. but, you know, anyone in the medical profession will tell you that you have to take six at least over a period of time and then take median and mean values, especially for water soluble nutrients, which are going in and out of your body on a 24 hour clock. Right.

Peter Bowes: [00:11:04] So but that’s not that’s not to say in terms of your overall health that there’s no value in blood tests, because clearly there is. And blood tests can tell us a lot more than nutrition.

Melissa Snover: [00:11:14] Absolutely, absolutely. And so when we think about blood testing for other types of biomarkers, like for example, cholesterol, this is extremely valuable. But what we find is a lot of people will come to us and they will have had one blood test that says that they’re deficient in B12. And we say thank you for that. But if we can understand a little bit more, we can we can actually be very helpful. And I think again, with the amount of diagnostics available to people at such low costs, the barrier to information is is almost nil. It’s not nil, but it’s almost nil. And as technology gets better and better, these costs continue to go down, which is fantastic, which is what I want to see. What we don’t seem to have enough of and what we’re trying to be part of the solution for at Nourished is once you have all this data, you need to be able to utilize it and turn it into something that you can take action on relatively quickly and conveniently in a way that you’ll be able to include it in your daily life. To be able to actually improve how you feel every day, but also, you know, protect you against the potential effects of aging and degradation. As we get older and we have these types of increased risks.

Peter Bowes: [00:12:32] So this is the next step. This is the practical Interpretation of the data and what it means for your everyday life in terms of how you exercise, but crucially, how you eat and the food that you eat.

Melissa Snover: [00:12:45] Absolutely. So, you know, there are a lot of places that will give you, you know, a bunch of recipes and a bunch of instructions and that is lovely. And if you are super committed and you have that time on your hands, then that can be actually turned into something very, very good. But what we find is the majority of our customers are busy professionals, busy professionals with kids, and the idea that they could cook themselves a unique meal while they’re also cooking for their family that is full of all of these different elements is impractical in the best sense. And then you have these other very special ingredients. A good example of which would be things like resveratrol or ashwagandha, where please believe me, you would not want to eat the raw material of these ingredients in the quantities that you need to in order to get the right amount of the bioactive. And so supplementation should really be coming in at that stage to help you to get the high impact dosages of those special ingredients. When the natural food product is not palatable enough to be able to eat.

Peter Bowes: [00:13:52] Yeah. So explain to me then how you help people get over this. I think you’ve described it well, the hurdle that is often the sticking point in terms of getting the data, that’s fine. Knowing what the issues are, but actually taking action and action that means something and achieves results in terms of helping people climb that mountain. What can you do?

Melissa Snover: [00:14:14] Absolutely. So once you’ve entered in your information and the algorithm has produced a recommendation for you, that recommendation will be a stack of seven nutritional elements. These could be vitamins minerals, superfoods, biotic, adaptogens. It will tell you the exact dosages that we would recommend. It then allows you, if you want to. To be able to switch the layers or change your stack, it could be for a reason totally not related to the actual efficacy of that recommendation. It could be I just bought a bunch of vitamin D3. I don’t want that in my stack. So you can actually change your stack. It will tell you the next three recommended layers, and why allows them the freedom to be able to do that. Then you choose your flavor based on preference alone, because if you enjoy a habit, it’s much easier to incorporate it into your life on a daily basis. And our adherence rates are above 85% daily. So this is really key. And this is a big part of the issue. When we think about healthy foods, healthy habits, then we 3D print your products using a patented technology that I developed in the UK with my tech team, and we shipped them to your door every month in home compostable, plastic free packaging. All of the products are sugar free and made with only natural ingredients no dyes, no GMO ingredients, and of course, free from all major allergens.

Peter Bowes: [00:15:42] Let me pause you there. Just go a little bit deeper into the 3D printing side of this, because I think in most people’s everyday lives, 3D printing still isn’t a thing. So could you explain how this applies to what you do?

Melissa Snover: [00:15:56] Absolutely. So I think a lot of people have probably seen a video on YouTube of a 3D printer making maybe a plastic Yoda head, which is a very common one that for some reason that people like to print. But our 3D printers are very different. When I started developing this technology, there was nothing really out there that was able to make food in a compliant way that would pass the regulatory requirements for the FSA and the FDA. So what we do is only consumables, things you put in your mouth and our printers that make the B2C personalized products have seven different extruder heads and a closed cartridge delivery system. So those seven elements at the correct potency that are specifically for you will be dropped into the machine like cartridges for a printer based on a QR code scan that’s attached to your order and all the traceability. The printer then prints a month’s supply of seven layer stacks with those seven elements at the correct potency and dosage. And then that takes less than 3 or 4 minutes. Depends on the ingredients and how slowly we have to go. But in general it’s lower than five minutes no matter what. And then once those products are printed, they then dry for around six hours and then are coated in your specific flavor and then are wrapped in a plastic free packaging.

Melissa Snover: [00:17:18] We actually have another technology called the NBR, which has 352 of those depositing nozzles and allows us to make really specific precision nutrition solutions larger amounts faster. That makes around half a million gummies a day of specific sets of ingredients. And we do this for, you know, very specific need states that we find are very commonly prescribed to on on the app. I think one other thing I’ll mention, which is really unique and I think hits home the difference in this to everything else. We really encourage our customers to check back in with the consultation questionnaire and the AI algorithm at least once every three months to make sure that their stack that they’re getting is still the right stack. Because as we go through the year, seasonality has implications for our diet, for our exercise, for the amount of sunshine that we are getting. Our goals change, our health changes and the data and the science and the clinical trials continues to amass every single week as more and more data becomes available. So we actually have some customers that have been with us for over three years, and they change their stack at least every three months, sometimes more frequently for flavors to keep it interesting and to to keep it into something that they really enjoy doing.

Peter Bowes: [00:18:43] This is the Live Long podcast. Our guest is Melissa Sneva, the founder of nourished. Now, I think a question on some people’s minds might be can we trust AI? You mentioned ChatGPT a little earlier, which is amazing, but I wouldn’t trust it 100%. You’ve always got to correct the proof, if you like, and make sure that what is being suggested to you is actually true and based on genuine information. So when you’re dealing with your health, that is even more crucial and critical that what we’re being advised perhaps based on AI, maybe not 100%, but in large part because of AI, can we trust it?

Melissa Snover: [00:19:22] Yeah, the short answer is no. You need to check and double check and cross-reference any recommendation that an AI is giving you the same way that you would do on, you know, information you might find on a website. Right. You want to see the verification, the proof of that. And there are some websites that have very strong credentials and authority that have built trust. So PubMed and the National Institute of Health, for example, is where we get our clinical trial data. so I think that’s really important in anyone using AI for anything. You should be cross-checking it. Now, the reason I can trust the AI tool that we built is because we literally manually tagged all of these clinical trials and put them into a data lake and then created logic around it. And so this is a very specific thing. This is off the grid. And this was done before ChatGPT. Now we use agents to help us find new research. But a human goes through and checks all of it before it goes into the algorithm, which is then again tested with humans before before it’s released back into an updated version. So I think absolutely, you should be checking double checking, anything I recommends. And I would go so far as to say you should also be double checking and also just questioning how biometric testing companies are creating correlative recommendations for you, because a lot of them, I don’t think they are being checked. Things like microbiome data, it’s it’s difficult for me, as with my scientific mind, to think how you could make a correlation to a microbiome test given the complexity of microbiome bacteria. Yeah.

Peter Bowes: [00:21:01] And just to be clear, you mentioned gummies a little while ago. The end product from nourished is a dietary supplementation. You’re not dealing here with raw food.

Melissa Snover: [00:21:13] No. We use raw food ingredients in the product, but the actual output looks and feels and tastes like gummy. Now it is a vegan gummy made with pectin from apples and it is sugar free, but we are making it into a very easy to incorporate format that in general, people like very much. And also it has the ability. We have a patent on the hyper suspension of hydrochloride bonds and pectin. That’s a lot of language. But what it means is we’re able to rapidly and robustly encapsulate very high levels of active ingredients in each one of the layers, and each of those layers has been proven in over 10,000 3rd party validated lab tests not to interfere or interact with any of the other layers, which means that once we put probiotics in there, we could have vitamin C in another layer, and it will not interact or in any way interfere with the probiotic, which if you mix them together in one big vat, it would put the acidity of the vitamin C would kill the probiotic.

Peter Bowes: [00:22:18] Now, I love gummies. Who doesn’t like gummies? But I think something that people maybe just pause when the. Here is the word supplementation that the supplementation in some circles has has got a bad name, largely because there’s a body of people out there who believe that a lot of supplementation is unnecessary. So how do you persuade people that this kind of supplementation is 100% necessary and beneficial?

Melissa Snover: [00:22:48] I would actually agree with those people about a lot of supplementation is not necessary. I think what we are trying to do here is to get away from this one size fits all approach, which is what, you know, even the most advanced options currently are still really dividing people up into like seven sections. And, you know, in those multivitamin formats, you get a ton of ingredients that you absolutely don’t need. Or in dosage levels that are totally not meaningful, right? And so by giving people the opportunity to have a custom product, which is truly a uniquely made just for them with the ingredients that specifically are going to help them, we hope to alleviate that. And again, like I mentioned before, supplementation should supplement your daily diet. If you have an amazing diet and you eat the rainbow every day. I eat 30 plants every day. I don’t need micronutrients. I’m supplementing with adaptogens and curcumin because I can’t possibly eat enough turmeric to be able to get the procurement level that I need on a daily basis for anti-inflammatory, support. So I think that’s what it does very well. It takes highly concentrated versions or extractions from some of these really beneficial ingredients, and puts them into something that’s really easy to incorporate into your daily life.

Peter Bowes: [00:24:11] You’ve used the term adaptogens a couple of times. Could you explain that?

Melissa Snover: [00:24:16] So the most commonly talked about adaptogens at the moment are probably ashwagandha, griffonia seed is a very popular one here in the UK, which has 5-HTP naturally occurring. And adaptogens were and have been used in medicine and herbal medicine. And they all have slightly different compounds inside of them that are helpful. In the ashwagandha example, you have withanolides – withanolides, have been shown in many, many clinical trials to reduce the amount of cortisol in the blood, helping people to relax. So there are some really lovely benefits around relaxation, anti-anxiety, you know, drug free, meditation, free, support for some of these things that I think a lot of, the global population are suffering from on a daily basis, and they want something that will help them, that isn’t isn’t medication and isn’t going to have, you know, some yeah, undesirable side effects. So but again, most adaptogens are coming from roots and herbs. And to get a beneficial dosage of those vital compounds is really, really difficult or very unpleasant to do by eating the raw the raw food. Yeah.

Peter Bowes: [00:25:38] What are some of the barriers that could prevent people moving into this? What is still, I think, a whole new world for many people. And I guess one of the barriers that comes to mind for me must be the cost of this, that this does not come necessarily cheaply for some people. And extrapolating from that, how can we democratize the kind of science that you’re talking about so that it is available to as many people as possible?

Melissa Snover: [00:26:07] That’s a great question and something that I thought about from really day one while we were developing the solution. So we try and make our personalized products as approachable from a price point point of view as we can. In the UK, for example, a month supply is just over 30 pounds a month, which means it’s around a pound a day. Which actually when you think about the cost of a, you know, Starbucks latte, it actually seems, I think, quite good value. And we don’t actually change the price depending on the ingredients. So sometimes we have people who order seven very expensive ingredients. It’s the same price regardless, because I don’t want people to value shop on their health. The whole point is that you’re getting really what’s right for you. Not that you’re getting the cheapest combination of ingredients for you, and that is really not like a lot of the other competitors in the market. Additionally to that, if you wanted to really, really be fully transparent, anyone for free can go onto our Consultation questionnaire and get a recommendation and just use that information on their own in any way that they can. to buy all seven of those ingredients separately. I’m not sure if you could do that for less than what we charge, but you can definitely try. and certainly you can look at incorporating different whole foods that have some of those ingredients into your diet. Do you know down to your meal planning? Right. Lastly, we have are ready to buy solutions, which we’re now starting to offer in different locations in the UK, and we have big plans to expand this into the US. It’s also available in the EU and these are ready to buy solutions. Seven layers of highly curated formulas that we have noticed through 2.5 million people answering the consultation are really commonly needed by certain types of people. These are available for as little as 1999 a month. So I think, you know, we try, we do our very best and we are able to do that because when you make every product unique for each person, we have 0 to 2% waste. No ingredients get thrown away, no product gets thrown away because it goes out of date. And that allows us to have an extremely lean supply chain and offer the very best possible price to the consumer.

Peter Bowes: [00:28:21] And how close are we? Do you think, to the major health providers around the world? And clearly different countries have very different systems. The NHS in the UK privatized medicine on the whole in the United States and different systems according to different groups of people in this country. But generally it’s a very different system to the UK, where healthcare is free at the point of delivery. But in terms of the providers embracing precision nutrition that we’ve been talking about, because I don’t think I’ve ever seen a doctor who’s engaged me in a conversation, particularly about precision nutrition. How close do you think we’re getting to closing that gap?

Melissa Snover: [00:29:04] Well, that’s a great question. And I think you really pulled out the most important pillar around it. I think we’re going to find that the, health care organizations that exist in societies where the public purse pays for health care are going to be the first ones to really embrace this because they have a commercial case, to keep people well and not incur costs of curing things or bringing them in for treatment. Right. So I think the motivation is extremely clear from a commercial standpoint. Of course, they also care about patients and they care about people. But at the end of the day, there’s a certain amount of money. And if they can keep people well by educating them about healthy eating, by, you know, helping them to access preventative solutions, this is obviously going to have a positive impact on allowing them to spend more money on curative solutions. And I think, you know, at the end of the day, a doctor’s job is to support you after you are unwell. It’s not really to be that point of truth around preventative health, and I think we need. We need governments and health organizations to give more guidance. Where they haven’t up until now, they really give a ton of guidance around curative solutions. What to do if you feel this? You know, in the in the NHS we have the 111 system where you can call up and say I’m concerned in the US. There are many, many different systems depending on your insurance company, but they are very similar, but there is very few that are offering this preventative support. And I think, you know, there is a very strong commercial case to do it. And I’m hopeful that, you know, here in the UK, but also in any of the other socialized medicine, countries where we see this, you know, Canada, all of the rest of the European Union, they will start to see the impact of this can have a very strong, positive impact on people’s lives, but also on their ability to be able to service a growing population’s needs.

Peter Bowes: [00:31:04] I detect your enthusiasm, Melissa, for this subject. I’m just curious what fuels that passion from a personal perspective.

Melissa Snover: [00:31:13] You know, I feel very grateful every single day that I get to go to work with people that I really love, but also respect massively, and that together, we get to have an impact on people’s lives in a positive way. We work extremely hard. I think I’ve worked 80 hours a week for the last 15 years of my life, but I would not want to switch with anyone because what an incredible opportunity to be able to go home every day and know that, you know, one small step at a time, we’re making a positive impact. And I, I really do hope that as we continue that, that impact gets to become broader and broader with the technology that we’ve developed.

Peter Bowes: [00:31:55] And we focus on this podcast, at least on longevity, living as long and as well as we can for maximum number of years. That’s why we talk about Healthspan so much. I’m just interested in terms of your own personal longevity. Is it something that you think about a lot, and have you changed the way that you live over the years, based on the knowledge that you’ve gleaned with your healthspan in mind?

Melissa Snover: [00:32:20] I was concerned and thinking about my healthspan, and I love that they’ve changed this from lifespan to healthspan, because that is really a very key difference in the way that you look at it. but I was taking products with neuroprotective benefits from the age of, I think, 25. I think the more and more information that becomes available around what we can do to give ourselves the highest possible chance of enjoying every year of our lives cognitively, mobility wise, self-esteem wise strength, the better. And I think there is a certain untapped magic that we have not fully accessed yet that will change the way we think about longevity as we move forward, and AI is going to be part of that for me personally. Yeah, I’ve been taking trends resveratrol since I was 25. I’ve been taking biotics, in special combinations that I started to tailor for myself based on my learnings. And I think, you know, I combine that with because nothing is one piece, you know, holistic health is holistic. So every day I spend time in nature not just exercising, but in nature for at least one hour a day. In Japan, they call it forest bathing. I’m not always in a forest. Sometimes I’m in fields. Sometimes I’m in the mountains, but I’m outside in nature for at least an hour a day, and I try, sometimes unsuccessfully, to get eight hours of sleep. which is, I think, the greatest luxury that I have at my fingertips. Yeah.

Peter Bowes: [00:34:09] It’s interesting. I talked to so many people for this podcast and ask similar questions sometimes. And a similar answer, a frequent answer is that time that we spend in nature every day as a determined effort to do and also sleep in terms of those crucial interventions every day to pursue the best healthspan as possible. And the others being exercise, social connections and of course, nutrition.

Melissa Snover: [00:34:35] Absolutely. I think sleep, it’s free. It’s not always easy, but it’s but it’s free and it is the single biggest needle mover for your health today and for the future. I mean, not sleeping well for many days in a row can have such a huge negative impact on your immunity cognitive function. so I think prioritizing sleep, it’s a one of my mentors a long time ago said it’s it’s a good investment because when you are a gung ho entrepreneur, you think, sleep. No way. I got to work harder. But actually, he really got me to look at it in a different way. And now I think about it as an investment in myself and an investment in future. Me. Yeah.

Peter Bowes: [00:35:16] One of the lines that I hate so much from people is I’ll sleep when I die. I think it does so much damage that line. But you hear it so often, don’t you?

Melissa Snover: [00:35:27] Yeah. And that kind of martyred him for not sleeping is such a unique thing to humankind. No other species in the world, you know, kind of stops themselves from accessing things that they need, in some kind of jumping on a on a spear kind of thing. It’s crazy. and actually, when you don’t sleep enough. And I’ve been there before. You make horrible decisions and so really, you cannot be effective when you’re in charge of anything of any, any meaningful value. and so. Yeah. By sleeping. Well, not only do I feel much better, I also make better decisions and create better opportunities and relationships.

Peter Bowes: [00:36:09] Melissa, this has been a really fascinating conversation. I wish you all the best with Nourished. Thank you very much indeed.

Melissa Snover: [00:36:15] It was a pleasure. Thank you.

Peter Bowes: [00:36:17] The Live Long podcast is a Healthspan Media production. I’m Peter Bowes. You can contact me through our website, LiveLongpodcast.com where you’ll also find the show notes for this episode.