Are Your Organs Aging at Different Speeds? | Paul Coletta

Paul Coletta: [00:00:00] It’s the quality of energy and vitality that I want to have. We are already living older, longer. We’re just living sicker longer. We’re really good in this country at managing disease.

Peter Bowes: [00:00:20] Hello again. Welcome to the Live Long Podcast. I’m Peter Bowes. Now, could your heart, brain and kidneys all be aging at different rates? Scientists at Stanford have been studying the idea that our organs may not age in sync, and that proteins in our blood could reveal which parts of the body are raging faster than others. Paul Coletta is not a scientist. He spent much of his career in business, the entertainment business, including a Disney and Viacom, before becoming CEO of the health food company Urban Remedy. But an experimental organ aging test. And who knew there was such a thing? An organ aging test gave Paul a result that he wasn’t expecting and ultimately helped change the direction of his career. Today, Paul is co-founder and CEO of Vero Bioscience, working to bring this emerging field of science into wider use. So what does it mean to have an old organ? How reliable are these tests? And if one part of our body is aging faster, first of all, does it matter? And if it does, can we do anything about it? So many questions, Paul, welcome to the Live long podcast.

Paul Coletta: [00:01:38] Thank you Peter. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Peter Bowes: [00:01:41] Good to talk to you. We’ll get into all of the background in a second. I’m just curious, though, can you tell me your chronological age and how old you believe that the – or at least some of – the key organs in your body are?

Paul Coletta: [00:01:55] Well, I am turning 63. I believe we’re the same age. is that right?

Peter Bowes: [00:02:01]  slightly younger than me. I’m 64, turning 65 in a few months time. But pretty much for argument’s sake, the same age, same generation, turning 63.

Paul Coletta: [00:02:12] And depending on the biological age test I have taken, I’m on a whole body somewhere in the neighborhood of 8 to 13 years younger. But interestingly, with the technology that I am currently trying to commercialize at Vero, I have an accelerated kidney by about seven years, meaning the age gap between my chronological age and my kidney age is seven years, which we would characterize as an accelerated organ. So, and that’s kind of an interesting story. And one of the, the things that brought me to this technology and, and wanting to, to found Vero.

Peter Bowes: [00:02:58] Well, let’s talk about that journey first of all, as I mentioned, you’re not a scientist, and I think it’s an interesting place to start the evolution of your career, from working essentially in the entertainment business to now working in science, health science and biology.

Paul Coletta: [00:03:14] Yeah. Well, I went from the entertainment world, as you mentioned, into the world of food. And really more broadly speaking, I really saw that as health, right? Reimagining a broken food system that was creating inflammation in the body, inflammation being the precursor to almost all chronic disease. And I’ve always sort of been interested in health and biology, starting with my own. And a dear friend of mine who is now one of our three co-founders at Vero, Marcus,ll made me aware of a of a test, an assay at Stanford that Tony Wyss-Coray, our third co-founder and head of the neuroscience lab at Stanford, had developed that through a simple blood test would tell me the relative age and health of each of my organs. So I was the fifth person at Stanford to take this, and it revealed that I had, as I mentioned, an accelerated kidney. Most of my other organs were what we call resilient, were at or younger than my chronological age. But the kidney kind of interested me, and I didn’t believe it at first, because I’m one of these optimizers that is always taking my blood. I went back to my kidney panel, GFR, creatinine, sort of the traditional blood biomarkers, and they were all asymptomatic. They were all green. I went to a cardiologist friend of mine who had a device called a Point of Care ultrasound. It was called a pocus, a point of care ultrasound. And he wanted my organs, and he got to my kidney and let me know that I had a fairly large renal cyst, which was benign, but certainly a indication of aging, of accelerated aging. And that got me really interested. And from there it was like, what are we doing with this? Could we translate this? Could we bring this to consumers to help them identify their accelerated organ? Because it turns out you are only as healthy as your oldest organ, and that’s your weak link. We don’t die at an organismal level. We die at an organ level. And so why wouldn’t you want to identify that and break the progression to chronic disease?

Peter Bowes: [00:05:35] So Paul, let’s just backtrack for a second. What does the test itself involve? Because a lot of preventative health interventions these days are quite involved. I’m thinking of full body scans and that kind of thing. What does this involve?

Paul Coletta: [00:05:50] This is a simple blood test. One vial of blood plasma that we send off to one of our proteomic labs, Soma or Olink. In particular, these are two high throughput proteomic labs. They generate the raw proteomic data, and then we put that through our proprietary machine learning system that uses Lasso regression to give us an estimated age gap for each organ. That’s the difference in estimated age between, your particular organ and your chronological age. And again, age being the number one risk factor for chronic disease. So the thinking is the older your, the older estimated age of your organ, the higher risk it has for disease.

Peter Bowes: [00:06:39] So this is there are a few technical terms that this is essentially artificial intelligence that is being used to make this estimation.

Paul Coletta: [00:06:46] Definitely it is math and molecules, purely math and molecules. And I might just back up and say, for those of your listeners that are not familiar with proteomics, basically the study of proteins we have in the human body, somewhere around 25,000 gene coding proteins. And these are very powerful, real time reporters of your health because they are the actual building blocks of the organ. Our assay looks at about 11,000 of your 25,000 proteins. And every one of those proteins come from a particular organ. So I could pull Peter out of your plasma one protein and say, this is a protein from Peter’s heart or his brain or his lungs. And that is what is so powerful about proteomics, and very different from all the other biological aging clocks that are on the market. Almost all of these clocks are whole body. These other clocks and are measuring DNA methylation. This is actually measuring the proteome, actually measuring the building block. The real time reporter of your health at the organ level.

Peter Bowes: [00:08:03] Now, you said that as a result of your test, you subsequently had an ultrasound and found a large benign renal cyst. So it wasn’t the test in of itself that found the cyst. It was a subsequent ultrasound, but it was the test that alerted you to that situation.

Paul Coletta: [00:08:22] Exactly. And I think that’s what’s really important about what we’re building. Vero is a predictive health company, and we’re on this mission to end age related chronic disease. We don’t measure, disease. We’re not diagnosing anything. We are predicting health and future outcomes, disease risk. So that’s a very important distinction between what we’re doing and what your listeners might have experienced with other diagnostic testing or assays.

Peter Bowes: [00:08:56] Just one sort of basic question about biology that my fundamental understanding is that our bodies have evolved in a certain way. And therefore logic would say we’ve evolved to have organs that age at different rates, which would appear to be the norm. So is there something about the norm that you are questioning, or is it just that information that you’re using, as you say, to potentially predict the future?

Paul Coletta: [00:09:28] Yeah, I don’t think it’s the norm that we’re challenging. I think, yes, we have evolved to have organs age at different rates. I think what we’re bringing to the table is that if that is the case, wouldn’t we want to understand where our weak link is? Wouldn’t we want to break the progression of the lorgan that is most at risk of chronic disease, of progressing to chronic disease. And that’s what we’re really trying to bring to, to the market. and you know, it, it turns out that that’s very possible today by measuring organ decline early and guiding this is the important part. There has to be actionable, guiding, precise interventions before the progression to disease begins. Then using the same tests to measure whether there was a positive outcome to measure the response to that intervention. So this is what we’re calling a closed loop health system, which doesn’t really exist today. We have tests out there that give you insights, a health insight, but they’re often not actionable. They’re not guiding you to a very specific in this case, cell specific and organ specific intervention and then telling you whether that actually worked. That’s what that’s what we’re trying to bring to market.

Peter Bowes: [00:10:54] And your situation with the cyst that was discovered, a benign cyst. How did you benefit from that knowledge?

Paul Coletta: [00:11:04] Yeah, that’s a great question. So that happened almost two years ago. And before I really was kind of deep into this, I had been doing taking, I was, trying to do a little strength training and taking quite a bit of protein, you know, around 100 to 150g of protein a day that I knew could be very hard on my kidney. And I knew I was also not drinking enough water. So it’s not it doesn’t sound like a very like, interesting intervention, but I tripled or quadrupled my water intake. That was one of the interventions that I took that I think has had a very well, I know has had a very positive outcome on my kidney. I’ve done a few other things we can get into, but that was the first. That was my first instinct.

Peter Bowes: [00:11:53] Just quantify for me what you’re talking about in terms of water intake, how much.

Paul Coletta: [00:11:58] I was probably drinking. It’s embarrassing. Everybody that’s ever been around me and knows I’m into health looks at my water intake and is like, you’ve, you know, you’re not drinking enough. I was probably drinking somewhere around, you know, 3 or 4 glasses of water in addition to, you know, full glasses of water in addition to, kind of the, the, the hydration I get through food, I eat quite a bit of fruits and vegetables. And I probably now up to about 8 or 9 glasses, full glasses of water a day. Yeah.

Peter Bowes: [00:12:33] Which is what my doctor tells me to drink. I think it’s sort of widely acknowledged that that is the is the best advice in terms of water consumption and just one little. And I think what you’re doing is fascinating, although one thought that comes to mind is, do we need a test like this to tell us to drink more water?

Paul Coletta: [00:12:49] No. But what’s interesting is I already knew I needed to drink more water. Having seen what might be happening to my kidney is what really got me hooked on adherence. Adherence. At the end of the day, it’s all about behavior change. And you know, people are different, but for me, what gets measured gets done. And if I saw this as a potential risk, I was much more motivated to actually take action. And when I saw that risk was mitigated through future tests, it kept me adhering to that protocol. And I think that’s the important thing. I think we know we need to sleep better and longer. I think we know we need to exercise more, but we don’t really have a personal compass that is telling us at the end of one level with our biology, that what we’re doing is working, or even necessary beyond sort of the general information that’s out there. And I think that’s actually what we’re calling the product, the digital product that will launch. It’s called Vero Compass. And it’s not diagnostic, it’s directional. It’s directing us towards what we need to do to take care of this weakest link, the most accelerated organ, and then telling us whether or not that’s working. And, you know, everybody’s different. But if I see it’s working, I have a much greater chance of adhering to that protocol than if I didn’t didn’t really know.

Peter Bowes: [00:14:23] So it’s erring quite strongly into the realm of health education.

Paul Coletta: [00:14:27] Yeah. Health, education, health insight. It’s what’s making sort of what’s invisible visible. You know, our health issues are, are largely sort of quietly, in action until we, we see some, some major symptom of chronic disease. And again, we want to break that progression. We want to show you what’s happening well before any symptom emerges.

Peter Bowes: [00:14:53] This is the Live Long podcast. Our guest is Paul Coletta, co-founder and CEO of Vero Bioscience. Let’s just talk about the artificial intelligence element here. How crucial is that? In other words, without AI, would what you’re doing be impossible?

Paul Coletta: [00:15:08] It would be. Ai is central. It’s an intelligence system we’re using. it’s not an LLM. We’re using classic, machine learning, lasso regression technology, artificial, sort of a classical artificial intelligence to build the model that gives us this insight. And I would just say one more thing. Our model was built and validated on a subset of the UK Biobank, about 45,000 people, over a 17 year window. So we looked at 45,000 people over 17 years, and we looked at their, signatures, their proteomic signatures. And what we would do is map one of your proteins to that cohort and say, look, this is what happened to somebody that had a similar signature in their proteome over 17 years. That’s where we get to these disease risks. We can see the outcomes that these individuals had over 17 years. and that’s what makes this so powerful. So absolutely without machine learning, without the, the intelligence, this longitudinal biology, intelligence system we’re building. This wouldn’t be possible.

Peter Bowes: [00:16:32] And that really illustrates the value of big data that you can analyze individuals over such a long period of time.

Paul Coletta: [00:16:40] Yeah. And longitudinal data. Right. That’s what we’re really what we need. We need to see this not just at the population level. We need to see it at the individual level. What happens when over a period of time, you do something and it moves the needle or doesn’t move the needle. Right? We need this longitudinal data at the n of one level.

Peter Bowes: [00:17:09] So we’ve talked about your kidney and water intake. What could this technology this science potentially help me in terms of my understanding of my brain or my heart or my liver. What other potential takeaways there?

Paul Coletta: [00:17:26] Well, we measure 11 organs today with that single vial of blood. We’re not just zooming in on my kidney. We get a a map of 11 organs, and we’re going to add more over time. But the two most important organs and the ones we’re most focused on are the brain and the heart. And if I had to elevate one coming out of Tony Wyss-Coray, that’s my co-founder at Stanford who developed this technology that Vero is exclusively commercializing. It’s the brain. He’s called this the gateway organ. And the reason it’s the gateway organ is it’s probably the most distributed organ in the body. If you think about it in terms of the impact it has, what I’ve seen in some of our early cohorts is if you improve the health of the brain, you are more than maybe any other organ, improving the health of all of your organs. So that’s the one that I think I’m most excited about. and it’s the one I think that actually most of the people were talking to, and our cohorts and our clinical partners are most excited about for that reason, this idea that the brain is the gateway.

Peter Bowes: [00:18:29] Because you’re right. That’s a great word. Your brain is involved in everything. And you say you learned or you, you the knowledge that you should drink more water was reinforced by this science, but it’s ultimately up to your brain to be part of the process to get you to drink more water.

Paul Coletta: [00:18:55] Exactly. That’s another way of thinking of it. If you want to really impact sort of all of your decisions, your brain is paramount. Absolutely.

Peter Bowes: [00:19:03] Broadening this out a little bit, Paul. This is a podcast about human longevity. It’s about aspiring to a great healthspan living as long as we can without the potentially killer diseases of old age. Based on the science that you now understand, how have you changed your life significantly with your longevity in mind as you look ahead to the decades in the future?

Paul Coletta: [00:19:27] Yeah. So I, for one, am not one of these people that want to live forever. I don’t understand it. I’m much more interested in this idea of healthspan. and I like this idea of living young only as late as possible. I think that’s my goal. and it’s changed quite a bit in my life. It’s changed. how I think about, optimizing my health and I can take you through sort of the three buckets. and these are the three buckets we would look at, for Vero and this compass that we’re going to be launching in about a year. There’s the world of lifestyle, there’s the world of sort of supplementation. And then there are, molecules, therapeutics, FDA regulated, whether they’re on or off label. And I’m been working with all three. lifestyle gets kind of an eye roll when I talk about it. because everybody knows, okay, I should be moving more and eating more. There are really five pillars to the lifestyle. That’s movement, that’s nutrition, that’s managing stress. That’s social relationships. Those things, if we’re not doing those well, all the other things really are not going to move the needle. So that’s where I would say in my life I prioritize. I’ll give you an example. I have always been a great sleeper. That’s one of my superpowers, fortunately, because I know people like my partner, she, she is not, she’s not a great sleeper. And, but, I started measuring the quality of my sleep and I noticed that my deep sleep, even though I’m sleeping 7 to 8 hours on average a night, my deep sleep was only around 10%. And I know we need to get that up to more like 20%. So that’s where a lot of the, neurotoxins are flushed during deep sleep, right? That is one of those interventions that will prevent neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer’s. So I’ve really been working on that and measuring my Vero brain, health over time. And I’ve just been doing some again, not so next sexy things. I’ve been going to bed on a more consistent basis at around 930 or 10:00. I’ve been eliminating blue light before I go to bed. I’m really conscious of the hygiene in the bedroom, the temperature, the light, all the things that I’m sure your audience has already heard about. But again, I’m doing it. I’m seeing a measured result, and I’m adhering to it more than I would have without this sort of personal compass. I see the result of it.

Peter Bowes: [00:22:22] Exactly. And I think what’s interesting to me is that I talk to people like you. I talk to other experts in different fields related to our health and potential longevity. And the message at the end of the day is often very similar. And that is taking care of our sleep hygiene, getting to bed early, eating, drinking plenty of water, taking exercise, all of those sort of core issues that the message repeatedly is, is essentially the same. I wanted to ask you, Paul, about one issue that often crops up when people are trying to take certainly use technology to, I think, accelerate their understanding of preventative healthcare. And there’s always this issue of potential anxiety or false alarms, incidental findings that might crop up, whatever the intervention is that is going to worry them, that is going to nag them, they’re going to worry about them, that it could potentially harm them today or tomorrow or a decade’s time.

Paul Coletta: [00:23:19] I think that’s such a great question. It really is. And it’s, you know, with all this measurement that’s out there, I think one of the big challenges is, first of all, so much of it is not actionable. Like, what do I do when function health tells me I’m, you know, this is actually a good thing that I am much younger. It feels like a vanity metric. Let’s say it said I was much older than my chronological age. I don’t think, there’s much actionability to a lot of these so-called biological tests. so first I think it has to be actionable and then second, it has to, you have to feel empowered. You have to feel like there is something you can do about it. And I don’t think this sort of measured self is for everybody. What I’m learning is just, yes, how anxious people are about learning that there may be some vulnerability in their biology. I, for one, am somebody that wants to know about it. I want to run it down. I believe I feel empowered to do something doesn’t always work, but I’m, I think I would say two things. One, I think there are very different people out there. The people like me that want to know and believe there is something you can do about it and people that don’t want to know, I think largely because they don’t either know or understand that there there are things we can do about it if if we know about it early enough so that that is a bit of education. I, I think I don’t want to go out there saying, look, you have a ticking time bomb inside of you. It’s called an accelerated organ. You better find it. Or else. I’d rather say, wouldn’t you want to know, years before an actual chronic disease, takes hold in your body, wouldn’t you want to know? And yes, there is something you can do about it. Again, there are these three buckets, and I’m very evidence informed personally. And I think with Vero, we’re trying to be very evidence informed. There are lifestyle, there are certain supplements I’d love to talk about creatine. That’s kind of my favorite. And then there are FDA regulated molecules and what I would call research grade interventions. And I can talk a little about some of those that I’ve personally been working with and have seen up to be efficacious in my own biology.

Peter Bowes: [00:25:50l] We will let’s talk about that in a second. Just one final point on this issue of maybe are we over testing? And I’m certainly in your camp that I, I want to know and I want to understand and take action that could prevent things happening in the future. And I think for people in this field, I think we need to get to a point where there is an acknowledgment that not everyone feels the same way, and that I think there are always going to be people who simply don’t want to know. And whatever the explanation as you’ve just described it. Well, if you only knew this, you could perhaps do this in a kind of gentle coaching of people that even that for some people is not what they want. And that, I mean, I don’t want us to move into a sort of two-tier health system where those that understand and want it get it and those that don’t are left behind. But I think we you kind of need to be quite gentle with people in terms of the cajoling, to acknowledge that some of these things can be beneficial.

Paul Coletta: [00:26:47] I agree, absolutely. I think there’s a, you know, there’s an EQ that needs to be sort of built into this, that we’re not all the same, we aren’t all, as interested and as, yeah, it is definitely, something that needs to be sort of gently and thoughtfully discussed with people. we’ve given this assay to several sort of research cohorts and we’ve learned a lot about that. And I think there’s still much more to learn.

Peter Bowes: [00:27:27l] So let’s dive into, you just mentioned some other aspects of sort of health interventions that fascinate you. You mentioned creatine.

Paul Coletta: [00:27:34] Yeah, that’s one of the supplements. You know, again, I’m very much sort of grounded personally. And with Vero, we’re very grounded in the science. And that’s one of those supplements that, is it might be the most researched supplement out there, certainly considered in the science to be very, very safe. And I know most people are using it for muscle, and what it can do for them as part of a training program, a weight training program or strength training program. I’m most interested in what it can do for my brain health.

Peter Bowes: [00:28:09] And what do you combine it with? What else do you do?

Paul Coletta: [00:28:12]  you don’t mean how do I take creatine? You mean what’s my stack overall? Exactly. Yeah. My other one. And I’m very, very, I do this very consistently. And that is a red light. In the morning, I get out in the sun for about 20 minutes. It’s kind of a ritual for me. I try to get in. I’m fortunate to live in a half time in Marin County and half time in Baja. So in the winter when Marin County isn’t so sunny. So I’ve got your year-round sun and I get out for about 20 minutes and, it really has an impact on my mood on my day. you know, a lot of people take vitamin D, I’ve learned that you can take vitamin D and it’s probably a great idea to take it, especially if you’re not able to get this kind of sunshine, but there’s no substitute for sunshine. And I think we’re really learning about the power of sunshine, reducing blue light at night and increasing red light in the day at a time of day when those rays are least harmful. And so that’s been a very, significant practice of mine.

Peter Bowes: [00:29:27] Well, that probably explains why you sleep well. The fact that you’re getting that daylight, that natural light first thing in the morning, kick starting your circadian rhythm.

Paul Coletta: [00:29:37] Yeah. I think it has a lot to do with the circadian rhythm. I also think it has to do with our mitochondrial health and what we’re learning about how red light impacts the mitochondria. And I saw you just had somebody on about red light a few weeks ago. I haven’t had a chance to to listen to that. but I’m, I’m looking forward to it.

Peter Bowes: [00:29:55] Yeah. Red light is something that’s fascinated me for a while. I use it myself. I think there’s a lot of very valid science there. And what interests me though is you mentioned creatine. And I said, well, what else do you do as well? And that’s the big dilemma for a lot of people in this field interested in optimizing our health is sometimes where do you stop? Because there’s great science behind a lot of these interventions. A lot of these supplementations. There’s urolithin a. If you’re interested in mitochondrial health, that again, has a lot of valid science. But is that something you kind of debate with yourself, or should I try this as well? And this and this and this?

Paul Coletta: [00:30:32] I’m always open to the science. And I also know my body. You know, I don’t think what’s right for me is necessarily right for someone else. I’d make the exception with the, the lifestyle conversation we had. But I am surrounded by brilliant scientists and doctors that are working with me and I often will, you know, just talk to them about what they’re doing and what they’re learning. And often I will, you know, run down a thread or two, and determine whether it’s something I even want to try. You know, my first hurdle is, is it safe? I’m not interested in anything that the science says might not be safe. I’m safety first. Then it comes down to a gamble of time and money, and I happen to have the power of the Vero tool to tell me whether things are moving in the right direction. That’s what’s really amazing about this. I get to experiment at the n of one level and see whether I’m having an outcome on my organs at the individual level. Sometimes it’s hard for me to understand what it is that is impacting that organ. So it is a bit of a stack that I’m constantly playing with. I’ll share one more thing that I’m doing. I’ve been very interested in the potential longevity impact of GLP ones beyond their on label effect, and I know there hasn’t been much in the way of conclusive human studies on this, but there’s been some pretty interesting animal studies. And yes, we’re not mice. But again, Back to safety. It’s safe. I think from what I can tell. So I’ve been taking, 1.5mg of tirzepatide once a week again for my brain, and I’m getting ready to launch and announce a cohort with a fairly large, clinic in the US that is very interested in researching the impact of tirzepatide on the brain, and linking it to a clinical outcome. So, you know, in the case of the brain, I’ve taken my not just my Vero, but I’ve taken my imaging, my volumetrics, of my brain over time longitudinally to see if that’s correlating to the organ clock that I’m getting out of Vero. and I want to do that. We want to do that at Vero with a clinical partner to clinically validate this beyond the sort of scientific validation we already have.

Peter Bowes: [00:33:17] Interesting. When I asked you about your own attitude towards your longevity and the decades ahead, you immediately jump to, well, I don’t want to necessarily live forever. I’m not in that field. And that’s what a lot of people think. When you ask that question, they think you’re asking about, do you want to live forever? Whereas longevity in my mind and healthspan is just optimizing the number of healthy years. And there does seem to be this divide, doesn’t there, in the longevity space or community, whatever you want to call it, of those who aspire to eternal life and those who just want to optimize life. And I’m just wondering if those perhaps on the fringes who think that one day is going to be possible to live forever, a damaging the sphere of science, that it kind of gives it a bad name because people think it’s just unrealistic and unobtainable.

Paul Coletta: [00:34:11] Yeah. And I mean, again, as you started out, I’m not a scientist. I am skeptical of this idea that we could live forever or even, you know, well beyond, let’s say, 110, 120 years old. I’m very skeptical of that. But I would never say never. but, you know, Healthspan is I think the goal, at least for me. And what I want the goal to be for Vero, you know, and I think about it, it’s, it’s the quality of energy and vitality, that I want to have. You know, we are already living older longer. We’re just living sicker longer. We’re really good in this country at managing disease, and we’re good at it because the profit incentives are aligned with managing disease, sick care. There’s not the same amount of money in health or death. So, you know, again, that’s why Vero wants to not try to be part of fixing the health care system. We want to leapfrog it. We want to keep you out of the system altogether and help you create a help you maintain an energy throughout life so that you can keep doing the things you love to do. And that’s what’s in it for me personally and for what I’m trying to to, you know, what we are trying to bring to the world with Vero.

Peter Bowes: [00:35:38] Paul, you’re doing fascinating work. Just as we close, could you outline the timetable ahead for your company and when this science is going to be available to anyone who wants it?

Paul Coletta: [00:35:51] I think it will probably be somewhere in, early, late 2027 or early 2028 until it is widely available. But at the moment we are, building a waitlist at verobioscience.com. And we are qualifying people for our research studies. We’ve already announced one with Biograph. That’s a concierge clinic, that we’re studying specifically heart. there’s a heart cohort. We are going to be announcing another one a shortly, another clinic where we’re going to do some clinical validation around brain. and if anybody’s interested in being part of those cohorts or the future launch, just to be have priority access, they would go out to Vero bioscience.com, sign up for that waitlist. I think our focus right now is clinical validation. It’s really important that these are not just scientifically validated. This assay it already is. It’s been about as peer reviewed and cited in nature as an assay could be. But it’s today it’s still a surrogate endpoint. We want this to be a clinically validated endpoint for health at the organ and cell level.

Peter Bowes: [00:37:11] Which is often the criticism, of course, of a lot of potential, you know, extending life science that there isn’t that clinical validation.

Paul Coletta: [00:37:20] Yeah. That to us is critical. That’s our priority at the moment.

Peter Bowes: [00:37:24] Paul I’ll put those details that you mentioned the website into the show notes for this episode, and I’m going to follow your work with a huge amount of interest. Thank you very much indeed for your time.

Paul Coletta: [00:37:34] Thank you. Peter, this was fun.

Peter Bowes: [00:37:37] The Livelong Podcast is a healthspan media production. I’m Peter Bowes. You can contact me through our website, livelongpodcast.com, where you’ll also find show notes for this episode.