Unlocking the power of advanced nutrition

Chris Rinsch: [00:00:00] The observation that when mice were taking urolithin A and that they were improving their muscle strength and muscle endurance, they were able to run over 40% further than mice that weren’t taking it. This was the revelation that caused us to think this could have a serious impact, beneficial impact on on humans.

Peter Bowes: [00:00:31] Hello and welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast. I’m Peter Bowes. This is where we explore the science and stories behind human longevity. Chris Rinsch is a co-founder and the CEO of Amazentis, the Swiss life science company behind Timeline, the nutritional supplement that’s been shown to support mitochondrial function and muscle strength as we grow older. In this interview, we’re going to take a closer look at how a product like this gets from the laboratory to your body and what it’s like as a researcher to embark on a scientific journey fueled by a desire to help people live longer, healthier lives. Chris Rinsch, welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast.

Chris Rinsch: [00:01:19] Well, thank you. Thank you for having me today.

Peter Bowes: [00:01:21] Well, it’s my pleasure and thank you for your hospitality here. It’s good to look at Amazentis is your parent company is based and where you’ve been doing at least in part doing the research that what goes back about 15 years now behind Urolithin A and timeline.

Chris Rinsch: [00:01:39] Well Peter yes, it’s been it’s been 15 years that we’ve been working on this. We started out with this idea of really developing this next generation of nutrition that’s scientifically based, that can that can really bring new benefits to to people’s health just on a daily basis, ways of incorporating these types of types of nutrition into our daily habits that will improve our health and wellness and well-being throughout our lives. And so that was really how we started out.

Peter Bowes: [00:02:17] Well, I want to learn more about how you started out and really dive into the process, because I’m interested in how companies like this develop and the research that you do. And really from an infrastructure perspective, what that actually involves to get from from an idea, from a theory to a product on the market. Before we do that, though, let’s just talk a little bit about you and how you got into this. You’re originally from California where I live. 

Chris Rinsch: [00:02:45] yes I’m from from Los Angeles, originally, grew up there, moved to Switzerland where I did my PhD. And and then while I was here, I got involved in the biotech industry, got involved into the venture capital community where we were looking at actually nutrition and and new ways of of basically bringing more, more of an advanced nutrition to the market. And during that period, I had a chance to see a lot of science that was being performed in laboratories that wasn’t really translating into humans, and it was staying at sort of the very early developmental stage. And at that point, also in looking at, you know, how the diseases of aging and the conditions that we all get as we get older, you know, this idea behind how can we actually manage that aging process and manage it through nutrition and not through pharmaceuticals and and do this in a in a smart way that empowers each of us to basically incorporate that into our daily routine and to our foods that we we take in the morning or and, and even, you know, supplements. So different types of formats of products. So when we started the company Amazentis the idea was was really to embark and try and develop this sort of Genentech of nutrition where we would take the all the tools that the that scientists use to create drugs and and apply them to the foods that we’re eating and to identify compounds that were bioactive and that could bring specific benefits for our health.

Peter Bowes: [00:04:36] And what was it about the state of science then, some 15 years ago that made you confident, if indeed you were confident that there was a positive end game here that you just described the vision, but there must have been something that you’d observed, whether it was anecdotal evidence or the state of science at the time, that enthused you to pursue this and to the point where you are now, where you have several products.

Chris Rinsch: [00:05:04] Oh for sure. So, you know, the idea at that time know what I had been observing is that you had phytochemist on one corner who were trying to dissect out all of the compounds that were found in plants and then who didn’t have the the biology, the basic biology skills, but more sort of the phytochemical skills. And then you had the academic researchers in the life sciences who were developing new drugs, testing out antibodies, gene therapy, et cetera. And there wasn’t too much of a communication between the two at the time. It was very early in in this idea of foods that could be really functional and have an advanced function. Of course, that’s evolved a lot in the last 15 years. And so we saw the opportunity. We saw we saw that as you there were publications on on different foods that were showing, for example, if you administer pomegranate juice to two mice that they were sowing some type of antioxidants or whatnot. But the very sort of, I would say, premature studies and there were studies I recall even with blueberries at the time, where they were looking at feeding blueberry extracts to mice and showing improvement in cognitive health. And and at the time, it was there wasn’t a deep dive into what was really driving those health benefits. It was it was more almost a theory that it was the combination or the, you know, this aggregation of different compounds, phytochemical compounds found in these foods that we’re eating that were making and providing these these health benefits. And and so we wanted to explore this further and do a deeper dive 

Peter Bowes: [00:07:14] So you’ve mentioned phytochemicals a few times. And of course, this isn’t the first interview that I’ve done about Urolithin A several of the independent scientists on the podcast, as well as people directly involved in Timeline and Amazentis. And we’ve explained this and we’ve explained the science several times, but phytochemicals, it might be just worth it. At the beginning of this interview, if you could just explain what they are, where they come from and why they are important for human nutrition. Sure.

Chris Rinsch: [00:07:43] So the phytochemicals are the compounds that are basically made in plants and you find them in whether they’re in leaves or the. Yeah. The flesh of of a fruit. If you think about the pomegranate as I guess we’ll be talking a little bit about the pomegranate today it’s you know there there are compounds that are distinct from vitamins and minerals and they’re yeah. And they’re compounds that are that can be distinct to certain plants and they can be also produced in many plants. And one of the phytochemicals that is found in the pomegranate that and we’ll be speaking about a little bit is the ellagitannin family and that’s found in in pomegranates is found in in different types of nuts and other berries. And so these are compounds that we don’t really think about as consumers. We we we often in the case of ellagitannins, we we sense them as a difference in taste and maybe a more of a bitter taste. But we don’t think of them for their health benefits.

Peter Bowes: [00:08:51] Anecdotally of course for many, many years pomegranates have been known to be good for our health. And to a greater or lesser extent, people around the world have been consuming them for a very long time. But when was it that you first realized that there was something perhaps more special about pomegranates than we’d first realized?

Chris Rinsch: [00:09:12] Well, you know, it was we started the company back in 2007, and we were looking at a number of different natural products, and pomegranates was one of them. And and what was attractive about pomegranates was that there were a number of scientists who are starting to explore what type of health benefits. And so there was a feeling that there could be something in terms of a real health benefit linked to pomegranates. But it was at the time it was for us a question is this is this marketing or is this something that’s real? And so it was one of a number of natural products that we were looking at, and we decided to take a deep dive on 

Peter Bowes: [00:09:58] And what was the first stage? And I’m talking in terms of getting the infrastructure, getting the relationships, getting the partnerships up to speed with independent scientists that over the years you have continued to work with just making that first step, that first hurdle, going from a hunch, from an idea, from an aspiration to, in practical terms, kickstarting the research.

Chris Rinsch: [00:10:25] Well, you know, when we created the company, we had some initial financing and we started to do some research, some basic research on on the pomegranate. And and this led to us getting some some very some grants here in Switzerland. And we started working together with different scientists here at EPFL and also with other technical schools here in Switzerland. And and the first stage was trying to when when it comes to the pomegranate, trying to understand, you know, what are those different compounds what are their abundance and and we were first exploring the idea of of an extract of the pomegranate that would be very, very controlled having a certain. A certain quantities of specific phytochemicals, but also trying to understand what could actually be among the, you know, among the dozens or hundreds of compounds that are produced by the pomegranate. Which ones would be the most impactful.

Peter Bowes: [00:11:36] And was it easy to identify others in the industry, in the business of research, who were doing or had similar ideas, who were like minded in terms of aspirations, who could also benefit from the various collaborations that you’ve had.

Chris Rinsch: [00:11:54] You know, at the time. You know, I believe there’s a number of companies that or scientists that were interested in natural products and trying to push and understand what their benefits were. But it is different when you’re in a in a company environment and you have a more of a focus to try and unlock and understand how things work and or and and even if they work. And I think that’s perhaps an important difference between academia and companies 

Peter Bowes: [00:12:32] The thing that strikes me is that here we are now at the point where you have several products on the market, and this is the result of a decade and a half of research and research, by its very nature, is expensive, especially when you’re talking about clinical trials and the infrastructure that you and others need to make that a reality. The financial involvement, the umbrella, financial involvement in all of that must be huge to even get to a point where you can begin to think about selling something to the consumer. And what’s in my mind is a huge amount goes into this and I’m getting that perspective from you that these things don’t just happen overnight.

Chris Rinsch: [00:13:16] Well, indeed, biology takes time to – research takes time, and it does require a certain quantity of investment. Research in the food side requires less investment than pharmaceuticals. And and I think and it’s a different it’s a different risk profile as well. But nevertheless, research and nutrition, if you’re coming up with something innovative and new to the market, it does take years to develop, especially if you want to set the bar high and have something very scientifically driven. So at the beginning we had very and we still continue to have amazing investors who are very patient and share this long term vision that we can make an impact on people’s health by developing cutting edge nutrition that’s clinically validated and and that we can incorporate into the various foods or as supplements. And so, you know, at the early days we had we also had a number and over the years had a number of grants that facilitated interactions with the academia. And and and this started out it was a stepwise process. We spoke about how we were and how we’ve been looking at pomegranates. We started out early looking at at pomegranates, trying to understand from a science perspective what, you know, what’s inside of the pomegranate in terms of the phytochemicals. And, you know, and it was this, you know, stepwise exploration that led us down the pathway and that we that we’ve arrived today. And it was a very sort of funnel approach, diligent approach where we where we looking one thing at a time.

Peter Bowes: [00:15:16] And will continue with Chris in just a moment. But first, I’d like to thank Timeline Nutrition, the subject of this conversation for supporting this episode of LLAMA. The Live Long and Master Aging podcast. Timeline make might appear, which is a highly pure form of Urolithin A the gut metabolite that’s been clinically shown to energize cells from within. The aging process affects our cells much earlier than you might think. It leads to a slower metabolism, lower energy and weaker muscles. But the evidence shows there’s something we can do about.  Mitopure, which is generally regarded as safe by the US Food and Drug Administration, boosts the health of our mitochondria, the battery packs of our cells and improves our muscle strength. Now I want to do everything I can to stay strong and agile. As I grow older, I’d like to continue doing what I enjoy doing, like a morning hike for many years to come. I’ve been following this nutritional supplement since before it went on the market and using it myself, buying it from timeline from when it was first available for this podcast. I’ve interviewed many of the leading researchers who for more than a decade have been unraveling the mechanisms involved in this aspect of nutrition, and the published science is compelling. If you’d like to join me on this journey towards a long and healthy life, Timeline is offering 10% off your first order. Go to timelinenutrition.com/llama and use the code LLAMA. That’s LLAMA to get 10% off your order. The link is also in our show notes. Go to timelinenutrition.com/llama.

Peter Bowes: [00:17:03] This is the Live Long and Master Aging podcast. Our guest is Chris Rinsch, a co-founder and CEO of the Swiss life science company Amazentis. Today, longevity, the word longevity. it’s something of a buzz word. There’s a there’s an atmosphere around it. There’s an enthusiasm around all things longevity and healthspan, lifespan. That wasn’t the case 15 years ago, was it? People wouldn’t necessarily talk about human longevity, aspirations to live as long as we can with optimum health in the terms that they do now. How have you and assuming that I don’t know whether you agree with that analysis, but how have you seen things change in this space, in this field over those years?

Chris Rinsch: [00:17:50] Indeed. I mean, if you think about 15 years ago, there was at that time when we think about functional nutrition, there was less of a focus on that, the term longevity or healthspan. And it was more about, you know, specific health benefits. And this is just a consequence of of marketing that there are certain, you know, you need to focus your product on on certain types of health benefits. And so there were products that are which are still out there today, like the Benecol, for example, that’s lowering cholesterol with time. If you take that and then there’s other products for immunity that with vitamins and minerals. And but the whole idea of longevity and healthspan really emerged over the last 15 years. And and while we didn’t while, we didn’t phrase it as longevity and healthspan at the time when we started the company, that was always our mission. How do we how do we keep everybody? How can we develop products that that basically improve people’s health throughout their lives and keep them at at their peak, no matter what stage of life they’re in? And so from the from the onset, we’ve been a company focused on longevity and healthspan.

Peter Bowes: [00:19:22] And healthspan, I think is is the key word, and it’s one that I focus on all the time. And again, I think there is a growing understanding. I don’t think it’s mainstream yet in terms of the general public’s understanding of what Healthspan is. And every opportunity I try to explain, it’s about living for as long as possible with optimum health, the health that you enjoy as a as a child, as a young adult. And then we all experience growing old and our parents growing old and seeing what happens when you begin to get those diseases. Sadly the killer diseases of old age and healthspan is simply existing for as long as you can, without getting to that that turning point where things begin to go downhill. And, you know, for me it’s quite a simple concept. But I think the challenge is certainly for people like you and it’s certainly one that I’m trying to address is to not only explain the concept, but to explain how we can use various interventions in our lives, whether they happen to be nutraceutical, whether they are exercise other aspects of diet or just getting more hours of sleep at night to ultimately achieve that goal. Do you see it like that?

Chris Rinsch: [00:20:38] Yes, I think you need a holistic approach that that integrates many different aspects and whether that’s changing your diet and eating healthy and having that right mix of foods on your plate to, you know, exercising on a regular basis as well as sleeping well. And then and then of course, you know, then comes the the functional nutrition piece where, you know, you have products that, you know, are clinically evaluated. And where you’ve been able to show a clear effect, a clear whether in our case we’ve we focused on mitochondrial function and as a first sort of physiological outcome of improving mitochondrial function, we focused on its effect on skeletal muscle and basically performance. And overall, I mean and this is this is the way that we’ve entered into this. But, you know, we can speak more about the importance of mitochondrial function as we age.

Peter Bowes: [00:21:51] Yeah, exactly. I’m curious. So once you got the company up and running, you were involved in the research. Is there a point, was there a turning point? I was going to use the phrase a big breakthrough, but was there a big breakthrough where that light bulb really shone and you could see, yes, there really is potential in the original ideas that we had.

Chris Rinsch: [00:22:13] Yes. In fact, there was as there was a defining moment in the company. And that was, you know, we had been looking at we had been studying the pomegranate, looking at extracts, looking at the compounds inside of the pomegranate. And that led us to to start looking at some of the the metabolites or postbiotics that were originating from these compounds. And and just to kind of give a brief explanation to that, when you consume certain phytochemicals, there are the the gut bacteria inside of us will transform them into postbiotics, which are metabolites of these these phytochemicals. And and one of these metabolites that we looked at was called urolithin A. And so we had been studying these phytochemicals, these ellagitannins in fact, in particular Punicalagin, which is the most abundant ellagitannin found in the pomegranate. And and at one point we thought, well, let’s, let’s take a look at at some of these metabolites or postbiotics that are, that are emerging after we consume ellagitannins. And and at that time we started investigating Urolithin A we, we then started testing Urolithin a in preclinical models in healthy mice. And we, we watched the and monitored the effect on the on animal physiology animal performance with time. And we were very surprised to see that there was this marked impact on the actual running of the mice. And they were running more than 40% more than mice that that weren’t taking our product. And I think this was this observation was was an important one for us. Now, prior to that, if I just turn back the clock, before we were looking at cells and we were seeing an effect on mitochondria function in cells and and we were looking at c.elegans and which is a standard model for aging that’s used by the scientific community.

Peter Bowes: [00:24:47] They’re little worms

Chris Rinsch: [00:24:47] Worms. Yeah, very small worms. And they have a very short lifespan of around 20 days. And, and what we showed and this is in collaboration with Professor Johan Auwerx, who is a professor here at the EPFL. What he showed in his lab was that by providing urolithin A to these worms, we extend their lifespan by around 45%, which was that was sort of the first step in the aha because he hadn’t seen other compounds that that were creating or catalyzing such a benefit on the on the lifespan of these worms and consequently the healthspan of the worms. And so that’s what caused us to advance into studying them in into mice. Yeah. And so the observation that that when mice were taking urolithin A and that they were improving their muscle strength and muscle endurance, they were able to run over 40% further than mice that weren’t taking it. This was the revelation that caused us to think this could have a serious impact, beneficial impact on humans because there wasn’t anything. And there continues not to be any type of therapeutics that are having a specific effect on muscle function and muscle performance like this.

Peter Bowes: [00:26:24] So the next stage human clinical trials. And the point is often made when people outside of science listen to conversations like this, they’ll say, well, it’s okay, it works in mice, but what about human beings? Clearly, mice, C elegans are good longevity models for the reasons you’ve explained, but it’s not the same as proving that it works in you and I.

Chris Rinsch: [00:26:48] Sure. And so that’s, of course, going from a mouse to a human. That’s a that’s a that’s a large step in terms of yeah, in terms of research and development, you have to you have to go through a certain number of safety steps. And and so we went through all of these. We had to go through all of these steps of showing the safety of, of urolithin A of course, people have been taking pomegranates for, you know, thousands of years. And so the safety of urolithin A is a given. But, but coming up with a product and really trying to understand, you know, how the effects seen in animals translate into humans, that was a big step. And so we went through all of the typical procedures of demonstrating the safety. And we ran a first study in humans for 28 days. And we looked at different doses to try and understand how bioavailable, what are the levels that are needed to actually have a potential impact at the cellular level and humans after after consuming this regularly on a daily basis.

Peter Bowes: [00:28:04] Could you just talk us through the process of analyzing a product for safety and the approvals globally that are involved in that and the involvement of the FDA? Because I think it’s again, from a consumer perspective, it’s a very blurry area when you consider a lot of the products that are on the market today. In terms of safety, can I trust this particular product? Who is saying it’s safe? Is it is it the company producing it? Is it some government funded body that’s saying it’s safe? Is it a combination of both. And what allows you to sell it? How does it work?

Chris Rinsch: [00:28:44] Good questions, Peter. So if you’re thinking about commercializing a new product, a new active ingredient that’s that’s never been sold and put into foods before, there are certain requirements and they, they vary from jurisdiction. But for the US, the standard is GRASS or generally regarded as safe. And you can and basically you need to put together a whole safety dossier that that contains all kinds of tests that you’ve shown that the product has been safe. And the FDA basically determines whether or not you have made the right conclusion that the product is safe. And there are a number of standard tests that the FDA requires to have in this type of filing. So we went through that whole process and met with the FDA and the FDA, and now it’s considered an FDA GRASS ingredient for foods.

Peter Bowes: [00:29:58] Is it I mean, it sounds a complicated process. Is it easy to to navigate all of that?

Chris Rinsch: [00:30:05] I would say that there is a certain amount of complexity to it, and it’s good that there’s a certain amount of complexity because we want we want to be sure that the products that make it through a this GRASS process with the FDA are in fact safe and can be used into foods because in fact that allows you to incorporate the product and the active into into foods as specified in your in your filing.

Peter Bowes: [00:30:36] So once you got to the point you’ve gone through all of this to the point of launching a product on the market, a new process for you after so many years of of research and development, how was that? How did you navigate that stage in your progress and the company’s development?

Chris Rinsch: [00:30:56] Well, it was an interesting time because we we were ready to launch around. We were planning for a launch in 2020. And this is right when Covid hit. And so we were building up a whole team in the US and doing this all remotely. Because we couldn’t fly there at the time. And and so it was a it was a very interesting chapter in the company’s life. And but it’s surprisingly putting together the team went quite well. We have a great group over there and yeah and we started commercializing in the middle of the year, sort of introducing it into the market. And, and now over the last couple of years it’s been really growing.

Peter Bowes: [00:31:49] And as I mentioned earlier, we’ve done lots of interviews with your collaborators. And if you go into the search engine of this platform, you can find those interviews and learn a lot more about the the minutia of the product as you’ve developed it. I’m wondering at that stage and once the product is on the market, what you can then and now potentially glean is the anecdotal evidence of people around the world who are actually using the product, which something en masse in terms of big data you haven’t had before because it simply impossible to get that kind of feedback. So what was the initial feedback? What is the feedback been like over the last couple of years and what have you learned that’s helped you?

Chris Rinsch: [00:32:35] Lots of interesting points that you raise, Peter, that as you know, we’ve been running, we’ve been consistently running clinical trials. So I think that’s something important for for for your audience to understand that, you know, when we when we started, we ran a first clinical study and then we ran two more clinical studies, one in in individuals who are 40 to 65 years old. And we were looking at muscle function. This was after a period of four months and we showed an improvement in muscle strength. We showed other improvements in VO2 peak and then we ran another study in individuals who were over 65. And then we showed an improvement in after two months there in endurance. And now we’ve continued to run other studies. In fact, we’re, we’re expanding that into studies, even in immunology. And what’s what’s fascinating is now, as you mentioned, we have thousands of customers and they give us feedback. And the feedback tends to be very consistent with what we’ve seen in our clinical studies. One, it’s there’s a lot of feedback on energy. So, you know, this idea that you have more energy, your your mitochondria are are your power plants, batteries, whatever analogy you want to use of your cells. And so they’re very important to making sure that your cells are are functioning at an optimal place. And and what we hear from people is that in fact they have more energy. People speak about. I mean, these are all anecdotal and you have to rely on the clinical studies. But people speak about having more energy when they even when they come back from work and are, you know, and are able to spend more time with their kids riding bikes and things like as simple as that, then you have people who are who are very focused on what they do and they’re maybe cyclists and they say, Well, I was consistently, you know, at the center of the peloton and now I’m starting to be more in the front. And we’ve even had some people who have sent us notes, you know, over over the weeks and saying, you know, I feel more improvement. I’m seeing more improvement on my times and and which is interesting to to see. 

Peter Bowes: [00:35:12] Well it’s interesting that we have the technology now on our wrists on on the bands on the straps that we attach to ourselves during exercise to essentially operate as one person. Guinea Pigs. Sure. And it isn’t scientific. There’s no control where an N equals one. Yes. But it’s more valuable because we have this technology now than than even just five years ago. Sure. Certainly ten years ago that we and it’s I mean, for some of us, it doesn’t interest everyone. But those of us that are geeky like this and kind of into it. It is interesting, isn’t it? And and possible to to see the graphs and to see how we’re we’re changing and to look at that information alongside our own personal anecdotal evidence, which is really just how you feel. And that must be helpful to you that people can do that.

Chris Rinsch: [00:36:03] It’s great. And in fact, you know, your question reminds me of of one of our customers who and this was about almost a year ago who sent. Does a message and and a picture of himself with our product on the on the top of Mount Everest.

Peter Bowes: [00:36:22] And we talked to him. I spoke to him on the podcast. 

Chris Rinsch: [00:36:26] Yeah. And so this was something where, you know, we had never expected this. We hadn’t been in contact with him. And and he was very diligent about monitoring all of his different physiological parameters as he was training. And and he seemed convinced that taking Mitopure and our product was key to maximizing all of his, you know, his potential there.

Peter Bowes: [00:36:57] Yeah, I remember the interview. He was very excited about it. And I suppose before we get over excited about this kind of evidence, we’ve got to remember that this isn’t information data that you can put into a scientific paper because it it just doesn’t stand up. And if I mean, it’s still fascinating to me, if I recount my own personal experience, I’ve been using Mitopure since it went on the market. And, you know, I’m instinctively quite skeptical about everything but and can’t talk about any quick changes, any immediate changes. But if I look at my energy levels today, even compared to just three years ago or maybe ten years ago, living the roughly the same kind of life. So that’s rushing around a lot, doing a lot traveling. It’s decisively higher now than it’s been for the last decade or so. Now, whether that’s because my urolithin A situation is better now than before, I don’t really know. And I can’t say as an individual because during that time I might have changed my exercise regime. I might be eating less meat and I’m more on a plant based diet. There are other factors that go into my lifestyle, so it’s interesting but not conclusive. And of course, that’s where the science comes in. That’s where the and that’s where science comes in.

Chris Rinsch: [00:38:23] Yeah. And that’s why it’s an excellent point. So this is why double blind randomized, placebo controlled studies are essential and that’s where we need to put the bar for all of these nutritional studies. And we need to run multiple studies. We need to and we need to show sort of an ensemble of evidence that points us in the direction of the benefits that the product can bring to us. Yeah, I mean, I have my own experience with the product. I also feel more energy. I’ve been now more than two years that I’ve stopped drinking coffee on a regular basis and and I don’t feel like I have less energy because of it.

Peter Bowes: [00:39:09] Why did you. I recently stopped drinking coffee, but I don’t intend to never drink coffee again. In fact, I’ve been drinking coffee today with your team here. But I. I stopped drinking coffee and I have several times over the last decade or so for a short period of time, for whatever reason, and have learned that it’s quite difficult unless you do it gradually. If you do it gradually, you don’t suffer the fatigue and the and the headaches that some people talk about. But what I’ve learned is that being caffeine free creates a relaxation, a sort of Zen like feeling that you didn’t have before. And I never thought I was particularly highly strung or that my state of mind was was spiking because of the coffee. But I do feel a certain relaxation, not drinking coffee. I think sleep is easier. That said, and we’ll go into a tangent here that I don’t want to go down, but I think there’s evidence also that coffee can be quite good for you.

Chris Rinsch: [00:40:04] Sure.

Peter Bowes: [00:40:04] Good data that shows that a couple of cups of coffee a day medically can be actually quite beneficial. And I also like coffee. I think it’s great. So when you gave up coffee, was there a reason? Was there an impetus to do it?

Chris Rinsch: [00:40:16] Well, it was something that I had been considering over a number of years, but when I had I had tried to to stop taking coffee, drinking coffee, I just as you said, I didn’t feel that same energy level. And and so I inevitably went back to having coffee on a regular basis. Now, I’m not saying that I, I won’t drink coffee ever again in my life. And I may have a glass of coffee from time to time if I go on a long drive or something. But, but in general, I find this more, as you said, Zen like feeling without coffee.

Peter Bowes: [00:41:00] Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s fascinating and quite striking, that feeling. So moving on, you now have several products on the market, including very recently a topical application for urolithin A. Just talk me through the research process and the development process that led to that and obviously the reasons behind it.

Chris Rinsch: [00:41:20] Sure. Well, we you know, we started with the nutrition products. We started the first product that we introduced was a well, it was a berry flavored stick pack powder that you could mix into yogurts and smoothies. And we still sell that. And and the reason why we started with that is because we wanted people to have a real experience, a functional food experience. It had always been for us, important that we were developing products that you could integrate into your diet, into your lifestyle and into your morning routine. And so having a powder would give that flexibility to mix it into into a number of different products. And, and so we began there. And then with time, we introduced more of a typical supplement format, which is a soft gel. And, and this was, this was welcomed by people. And of course, it’s convenient also to have soft gels. I know you mentioned to me this morning that you travel with the with the berry stick packs and those are also very convenient. And then after that, we you know, we started hearing from athletes and this idea of, you know, I’m taking protein on a regular basis. I’d like to you know, it’d be great to have a product that would have protein in it as well. And so we we developed our first product that contained Mitopure and protein as a protein shake for people who are, you know, finishing up from exercise, whether it’s the gym or other other types of trainings that they might be doing. And and then 

Peter Bowes: [00:43:00] And at the moment,that’s a whey protein.

Chris Rinsch: [00:43:02] Yes. This is a whey protein. Yes.

Peter Bowes: [00:43:04] Have you thought of doing a version that would appeal to those people on plant based diets?

Chris Rinsch: [00:43:09] Well, yes. So the so the product that we have today is is a whey based protein. And we’re we’re continually trying to innovate our products. And so something that’s more targeting a vegan community that would look for and be interested in other types of protein sources could certainly be in our pipeline in the future.

Peter Bowes: [00:43:32] Interesting. So we digress from the topical application.

Chris Rinsch: [00:43:36] Yeah. So, so we’ve actually been thinking about topical for a while. So we’ve introduced a range of topical products earlier this year and this is sort of a format of a day cream, a serum and a night cream that all contain Mitopure and, and the reason why we explored this is we thought, you know, this is as we think about healthspan and longevity and aging in general it’s not only you know our our muscles and all of the tissues of the body, but our skin is what we what we see first. And our skin is the largest organ of our body. And and it it gets, you know, attacked from the sort of the normal aging process, but also is bombarded by all of these, let’s call it extrinsic aging factors, whether it’s UV light or pollution. And so that that accelerates that whole process of aging. And you can see that in people who have been exposed to a lot of well, have been smokers, lifelong smokers, or who have been also spending most of their time outside versus those people who spend their time inside. And so we thought it would be interesting to explore this a little bit more. And so, yeah, probably about two years ago we embarked on this journey and we started developing products that contain Urolithin A in them for topical applications. And we’ve run a number of now several clinical studies on that showing benefits for basically skin health. I mean this is and we think this is a very exciting area.

Peter Bowes: [00:45:22] So so as we conclude this, just a final thought about how you see the future. And I’m wondering if you agree with me that we still seem to be the whole area of exploiting plants, of understanding the power of the components of plants and how they can apply to human health and longevity, but that whole area of science is still in its infancy and there’s there’s a long way to go. So how do you see the years ahead?

Chris Rinsch: [00:45:51] Well, for us, we’re you know, we are creating a company that’s really focused on longevity and healthspan. And so the idea of going beyond just a single product that contains Mitopure but to multiple products that are addressing different health areas that we need to think about as we get older will be the direction that our company evolves. And and one thing that’s certainly important is, I mean, a fundamental to all of the different health benefit areas is mitochondrial function. And there are certainly other phytochemicals that are very interesting and have some compelling science around them that could then be added for each of these health benefit areas that we are thinking about as we get older.

Peter Bowes: [00:46:52] And you mentioned the holistic approach that it isn’t it isn’t just one thing, it isn’t just one aspect of our lifestyle. Just in closing, give me an idea of holistically how you live your life with your you’re clearly interested in fascinated by longevity as I am. How do you live your life full picture with your longevity in mind?

Chris Rinsch: [00:47:15] Well, certainly it starts with taking our product Mitopure every day. I think that’s it’s key to have sort of that as as a as a foundation. But diet, a very healthy diet is is key and and moderating what you eat so it’s not to go overboard and regular exercise whether that’s walking regularly going to the gym or running. I tend to do more running and hiking and walking and yeah. And just keeping active I think that’s important. And, and the combination of good diet keeping active and taking supplements that are targeting your mitochondria. I think that’s at least for me the holistic approach that that I use 

Peter Bowes: [00:48:15] Well Chris, I think the work that you’re doing and its potential is fascinating. Really good to talk to you. Thank you so much.

Chris Rinsch: [00:48:21] Thanks so much, Peter, for having me.